Is it About to go Nuclear in Israel - Pastors Round Tabel

With news out of the Middle East and tensions rising with Israel, Pastors Tom Hughes, Bill Salus, and John Haller give us up-to-date news on a multi-front war effort with southern and northern borders.

Can peace indeed be achieved in the turbulent Middle East? Join us on "Hope for Our Times" as we unpack this question with bible teachers John Haller and Bill Salus. We dive deep into the escalating tensions in Israel, especially in Judea and Samaria, and explore these conflicts' historical and prophetic dimensions. 

Bill offers a biblical perspective, referencing [Jeremiah 12:14-17], and discusses God's peace plan, which involves addressing ancient hostilities and returning displaced populations to their lands. We explore the divine judgment and compassion embedded in these prophecies, providing a profound understanding of the current geopolitical landscape.

Our conversation then turns to the historical re-establishment of Arab states and Israel post-Ottoman Empire. Was the creation of Israel in 1948 merely a political move or an act of divine intervention? 

We analyze biblical prophecies intertwined with these events, highlighting the importance of Israel's adherence to divine expectations amidst fragile peace agreements with its neighbors. The theological implications of these developments are immense, shedding light on the prophetic undercurrents influencing present-day Middle East politics.

Finally, we tackle Israel's military and geopolitical challenges, particularly from Hezbollah and the broader prophetic landscape suggested by Psalm 83. We invite listeners to grasp the prophetic significance of unfolding events by discussing the future destruction of Damascus and Edom, the potential role of the Israeli Defense Forces, and the impact of modern-day conflicts on biblical prophecies. 

To view this interview:  See 

https://rumble.com/v5ejrud-pastors-round-table-its-about-to-go-nuclear-in-israel.html

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Chapters

• 1:13 Middle East Peace Plan and Prophecy
• 5:13 Peace in the Middle East
• 16:06 Conflict and Peace in Middle East
• 23:43 Unfulfilled Prophecies and End Times
• 36:28 The Future of Israel and Prophecy
• 50:20 Future Destruction of Damascus and Edom

Transcript

Tom Hughes: 1:13

you. Thank you, welcome everybody. Welcome everybody to Hope for Our Times. Listen, we have a special program for you today. I'm here with my two guests, john Howler and Bill Salus, and we have a lot to talk about. A lot of things are going on over in Israel, but we're going to connect some biblical dots and that's going to be a great conversation, that we're going to connect some biblical dots and that's going to be a great conversation that we have. So thank you for joining me, you guys Good to be, here.

Bill Salus: 1:51

It's great An hour away. I always love driving out here.

Tom Hughes: 1:55

It's nice to have and John's, here in town A whole country away. John's a whole country away, except you were in Temecula with me the other night. That's right, yeah, last night, and now you're still here, so we're in studio together and this is great. And having both of you at the same time I don't think I've ever done that before.

John Haller: 2:13

We actually did. At 412 Church, we did both of you About six years ago. Yep, Really, yeah, I wore my. I see Bill has his Hawaiian shirt on today. I have a Tommy Bahama shirt and I wore it that night, so I didn't even think to bring it this time.

Bill Salus: 2:26

So obviously we did not coordinate this.

John Haller: 2:29

We did not coordinate, and I don't have mine on.

Tom Hughes: 2:32

So hey, so let's get going. We have a lot to talk about. There was the Allenby crossing terrorist attack the other day. There's another terror attack in one of the tunnels. It didn't go well. It was a lady. It didn't go well. She was caught. Nobody was killed in that one. But we see these different things happening. There's huge problems in Judea and Samaria, aka West Bank. Everybody, bill, as we look at things developing and everything's on edge. We obviously have Hamas and Hezbollah and all these pressures coming from Israel. Everywhere they're losing the propaganda war. I want to hear from both of you guys things you agree on, things you don't agree on, but I want to help everybody to understand the dynamics of what we're looking at, based on the Bible, and where we see this all going. So you ready to roll?

John Haller: 3:25

I am John. I think we can fill up a few minutes here. I know you can.

Tom Hughes: 3:30

Yes, you can. Okay, Bill, what do you see coming?

Bill Salus: 3:34

Well, I'd like to kind of take an overview of God's peace plan for the Middle East and how the Arabs are out of compliance. And if we turn our attention to Jeremiah, chapter 12, verses 14 through 17, we have some slides prepared. If we can go to God's Peace Plan, part one, jeremiah, chapter 12. And we're told there that and Jeremiah writes this about 2,500 years ago God knew that when he brought the Jews back into the land, out of the nations of the world, there would be resistance by the evil neighbors around there, the Arabs that have harbored an ancient hatred of Israel From time immemorial. That hatred never went away and got under the umbrella of Islam. So God knew this would be the case. He knows the end from the beginning. He says Thus says the Lord against my evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused my people, israel, to inherit, behold, I will pluck them out of their land and pluck out the house of Judah from among them. And it shall be after I have plucked them out that I will return and have compassion on them and bring them back, everyone to his heritage and everyone to his land. So part one of this plan is very compassionate. Notice he's calling the neighborhood evil neighbors In forceful language. He's going to have to pluck them out and take them back into their lands Because of course during the diaspora a lot of them had gone into Israel and homesteaded in there, etc. He also says I will pluck out the house of Judah, the Jews, out from those Arab lands and bring them back Forceful language they're not going to voluntarily go necessarily and have compassion on them and bring each one back to their own heritage and the cultures and their land. So we have another slide that shows who the evil neighbors are and this is a modern day. Look at their names on the map. You got Lebanon, where Hezbollah is, syria, iraq, of course. You got Shia militias in Iraq from Iran, so you got proxies in Syria, iraq of Iran, hezbollah. You got Hamas down in the Philistia, jordan, palestinians, saudi Arabia and Egypt, of course. These are the populations that came against Israel in 1948 in the Arab-Israeli War.

Bill Salus: 5:35

So God says I'm going to go ahead and put you guys back in your lands. He had to make a major sovereign move to do that because the Ottoman Empire controlled the Middle East from 1517 to 1917. So the Ottoman Empire gets defeated in World War I and we see this, god's starting to prepare the lands, giving the Arabs their statehoods again. We have an image there. Can we show when the Arab states got their reopenings again? We got Egypt in 1922, saudi Arabia you see the map up there 1932, lebanon 1943, syria and Jordan 1946, and then along comes Israel in 1948.

Bill Salus: 6:10

So we see that God did this sovereign act. This was not the United Nations, this was God. Putting these places together, getting the Ottoman Empire out of the way, freeing up the land so that he could fulfill part one of his plan. So a very compassionate plan. And we're going to find out what all God is going to ask for. Doing all that for them sovereignly is in part two.

Bill Salus: 6:29

Can we go to part two on the slide?

Bill Salus: 6:33

And so it shall be that if they learn carefully the ways of my people to swear by my name, as the Lord lives, as they taught my people to swear by Baal, then they shall be established in the midst of my people.

Bill Salus: 6:44

But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says the Lord. So all he's basically saying for all that he's going to do for not just the Jews but the Arabs as well, bring them back into their lands, reinstate their states. They just need to swear by his name, not by Allah, which is what they swear by, not with the same zeal that they used to teach the Jews and Jeremiah's time to swear by bail. Remember back then they were sacrificing their children to bail at that point. So we're not saying sacrifice. Your children were saying, with that zeal though you know, worship Jehovah, the Bible, not all of the Quran, and they're out of compliance. They will not and they do not and they never haven't 1948, so we don't expect a change there. As a matter of fact, they want to wipe Israel off the map.

John Haller: 7:29

Are you talking about the Arabs now? Yeah, the evil neighbors. Evil neighbors, okay. Because, of what they worship. So can we say that today, in today's terms, the evil neighbors worship Islam?

Bill Salus: 7:42

follow Islam. Yeah, they don't swear by the Lord like they should, according to God's desire for that.

John Haller: 7:48

Okay so, then, how do we separate out the fact that Israel's really not fully on board with everything yet, although there's, as we talked last night, there's a big awakening among them?

Tom Hughes: 7:58

Yeah, there's awakening and I totally agree, john. I look at it with Israel. Israel's been in rebellion since I mean you go back to the time of Solomon. Has Israel ever not been in rebellion? Babylon comes in I mean they had a couple of good kings in Judah but then you go to the Greek empire. You got the Persian empire, greek empire, the Roman empire. Israel's still back in the land, but they don't have a new heart yet.

John Haller: 8:23

Well, you know, you can look at it historically, the way Israel's come back into the land and actually ruled and governed themselves. You had the time of David and Solomon, which was 70, 80 years, then you had some time around the Maccabees and now you've had 75, 76 years since 1948. And that's really the only time that they've had. They've only had little short snippets and they've rebelled a lot, although sometimes I think we're too hard on the Jewish people. It's sort of like, well, we're not really any that much better, you know.

John Haller: 8:58

But so, and I know that what we saw in 48 was we saw all the Jews brought back out of these Arab countries back to Israel. Because, I mean, you look at the charts I've used them many times they went from tens to hundreds of thousands of Jews in these countries and now there's like 12 in some of them, you know, maybe 12 old jews still living. So we see that coming. So so I just want to make sure I understand where bill's coming from. So the evil neighbors are worshiping a false god, but it doesn't, because some of these countries have peace agreements right now with israel is. Does that factor in?

Bill Salus: 9:43

they're going to go bye-bye. I can tell you where that's in Scripture with Jordan and Egypt.

Bill Salus: 9:48

But to answer your question, john, contextually, we're not talking about Israel per se. We're talking about the evil neighbors. For all that God's going to do sovereignly for them, putting them back into their lands, going to have compassion on them he's willing to do that and their heritages. He just wants him to swear by his name and if not, they will be utterly fucked up and destroyed. That's very powerful. God's going to destroy those nations. That's what he's saying there and we looked at who they are and that evil neighbor group around about. They show up all over the place. They show up in ezekiel 28, zechariah 12, psalm 83 and just a whole bunch of other prophecies. Time permitting, I can tell you I believe the features of Jordan and Egypt scripturally will go by the wayside. They're fragile. I don't know if you want to jump there now, if we want to keep up the flow or what we want to do.

John Haller: 10:37

John, I'm sure you're ready. So let's go where I started, because I kind of jumped off track early on. So let's go where I started, because I kind of jumped off track early on. So I'm increasingly of the view that Psalm 83 describes 10 people groups around Israel. So you've got Gabal, you've got Tireside, and Tireside clearly is Lebanon, there's no doubt about that, particularly southern Lebanon, which is where Hezbollah is most powerful. It talks about Assyria, which I would equate to Iraq. I think that's controversial. Some would put it in northern Lebanon. Also, there's some indication with some of the scholars that it might be like down for Saudi Arabia. But I do think they all come. My personal view is they all come together in this peace agreement. But it says in Psalm 83 that they're conniving. Let's make Israel not a nation, and so we have this interesting dynamic that's going on that I'm not sure we really understood or saw coming. It's like a lot of things in Bible prophecy like the last five years, that a lot of things in Bible prophecy like the last five years, that a lot of things have been thrown at us that we maybe didn't see coming. So I know you said you disagree with that, but we know that there's something coming. I mean, we know the Abraham Accords are a big deal. We know that Saudi Arabia wants to enter into the big Abraham Accords.

John Haller: 12:05

Friday Jerusalem Post published their weekly magazine. The title of the front cover of that magazine I should have brought a copy of it said Peace is Inevitable. That was the title of it and it was just kind of interesting the timing of all of that with all the things that are going on. Kind of interesting the timing of all of that with all the things that are going on. So they had a bunch of scholars. You know that two years ago Saudi Arabia sort of let leak through Al-Arabiya and then the Wall Street Journal, of all people, picked it up and said, hey, there's a Jordanian option for peace. It looks a lot like the Trump peace plan. Look, I don't think it's viable because it wants Israel to give away the West Bank, the heart of Israel, the mountains of Israel, which are the watershed. I think it's a crazy, nutty idea, but it seems like all the leaders of the world believe it, except maybe the Israeli leaders.

Tom Hughes: 12:57

Well, there's something you said. It was a while back. We were doing a podcast together and I think it is so telling because the reality of it is, with all the pressure on Israel right now, they've got all the propaganda, they're losing the propaganda war. They can't win it. It's apart from programs like this. They ain't going to happen.

Tom Hughes: 13:16

And then you've got the constant threat of anti-Semitism all over the Western world, and then the war's going on in Israel, extremism all over the Western world, and then the wars going on in Israel. Israel's in this position of going to a place where it'll be peace. We just want peace, and you can see them being set up for that. I mean, who wouldn't want peace if someone or something came along and said, hey, we can guarantee it for whatever we can talk about Psalm 83, ezekiel 38, or Daniel 9. We can look at those differently or whatever we want to do, but Israel's. If you're Jewish, especially Israeli Jew, I'm thinking you would be saying I just want to be able to rest at night, I want to know my kids are going to grow up, and so that is definitely developing in the hearts and minds of people Answer a question for me when did the tunnel attack?

John Haller: 14:09

they stopped the terrorists today. Where did that occur?

Tom Hughes: 14:11

exactly. You know what I will. I'll tell you what I'll look it up.

John Haller: 14:16

Because this, when we talked about this last night, there's this growing unrest in the West Bank, Judea and Samaria.

Tom Hughes: 14:27

It was in the Judea and Samaria area.

John Haller: 14:29

And they found tunnels there too. And Iran has been arming these people like crazy and they complain about the Philadelphia quarter, but they're not keeping the arms out of Judea and Samaria and so now they're doing the biggest operations they've ever done in the Palestinian areas against us. But you know, this is what troubles me is, you know, we've been there. But I have Jewish friends who've lived and been born in Israel, who've never been to some of these biblical sites within Judea and Samaria because it's not safe to go. Our friend that we talked about last night, he said you know, first time I've ever lived here, I don't think I'll go with there, I'll ever go to those places again, because it's not safe.

Tom Hughes: 15:11

And, by the way, I do want to mention this. So we have a trip coming up to Israel in March and, just for the record, we don't go to the war zones Everybody. We go to the places. We'll be in Jerusalem. It's going to be a fantastic trip, but I wish I could take everybody to Shechem. I wish I could take them to these places. Shiloh, we might be able to get to Shiloh, that would be still be able to do that one. Bethlehem is a little bit more challenging, but most groups we don't take to Bethlehem anyways, but it's going to be a great trip. You can join us, it is. It is coming up in March. We don't take you to, we don't take you to the war zones everybody. Just so you know it's going to be a great time. Okay, back to you so.

John Haller: 15:53

So anyway. So back to this. You know, tell me what you think about this Psalm 83 alliance which which appears to be forming, and, and I will just add, so I think Israel is going to prevail in these wars. But they have a very difficult situation in Lebanon. Hezbollah is embedded, hundreds of miles of tunnels drilled through bedrock they have.

John Haller: 16:17

Hezbollah is the fourth most powerful missile country on planet Earth right now. If you just term number of missiles on planet Earth Hespelaz, number four or five, and then you have the convergence on top of that of this drone technology that's being developed everywhere. I mean Ukraine.

John Haller: 16:38

I get in trouble every time I say this Ukraine's doing is causing Russia a lot of headaches, and they're outnumbered five to one at least, and they've hung in there for two and a half years now. They've gotten a lot of funding and stuff from the West, but they've developed a tremendous amount of drone technology that can be done cheaply and it can kind of overwhelm the finances of the enemy. So you have the missiles and the drones and it's hard for Hezbollah to launch all the missiles at once because it takes one launcher for one missile and Israel will find out where those are and destroy them. But the tunnel system in southern Lebanon, which I'm told by people at Alma Research and elsewhere, goes all the way to Beirut and I don't know how Israel prevails other than turning southern Lebanon into something that looks like Gaza today, totally flattened and destroyed, just annihilated.

John Haller: 17:40

So my question is but after they do that, there will be people left up there that may make a peace agreement with Israel. That's what I'm saying. That's where I think Tyre and Sidon come in only after a big war and a defeat. So go ahead. You have the floor now for one minute.

Bill Salus: 17:58

You speak about a peace agreement involving the Arabs and the Jews and where you find that involving the Arabs and the Jews.

John Haller: 18:05

And where do you find that? Well, I think it's implied in Psalm 83. It's implied because it's. Do I have a specific text that it says that? No, but I have the reality of the world that I'm seeing at, where the facts on the ground are, and the Jerusalem Post, friday, publishing a whole their their cover big story article Peace with Saudi Arabia is Inevitable.

John Haller: 18:30

One week, ten days before October 7th, mohammed bin Salman does an interview with Brett Barrett Fox. Two or three days later, benjamin Netanyahu stands in the well of the UN General Assembly and says we are at a pivot point of history. We will have peace. You will be amazed. Now, of course, life intruded, but I'm seeing the way that this is kind of coming together and that's just sort of how I'm seeing it. So do I have a specific text? No, but I think that. Look, I was in Israel a year and a half ago, or well, about 10 months before October 7th, and I told people, I told Jewish friends, be careful with these Abrahamic courts, because that's all they were talking about. Oh, how wonderful this. I said it could be a trap, because the people you're making it with are described in Psalm 83, and they're still around as conniving and in a conspiracy.

Bill Salus: 19:27

So now you can go ahead, okay so let's just talk about what you think is implied in Psalm 83 for a minute, because I don't see that anywhere. This is a group of Confederate nations. We saw them on the map with the evil neighbors map. As a matter of fact, if you've got that image back there, put that evil neighbors map up, or that picking buyer map up again. Okay, these are the populations an inner circle of countries surrounding Israel that are listed in Psalm 83.

John Haller: 19:53

Okay, but you're saying evil neighbors in terms of how they relate to God, not necessarily as to how they feel about Israel.

Bill Salus: 20:02

Well, both God's looking at evil neighbors to Israel. Remember Jeremiah 12, that he wanted them to dwell peacefully in the midst of his people. He wanted the Jewish state and the Arab states to have normalized relations. That was his plan. Establish them, pluck them out, put them in that they could dwell in the midst of his people, the Jews. But they're not complying and they're going to be utterly plucked up and destroyed as nations.

John Haller: 20:25

I know, I agree, there's like a big fake-out going on. Okay, so Jordan has a peace agreement, egypt has a peace agreement. We know that they don't really feel like this. I mean, look, with the Al-Ambi Bridge attack the other day, what were they doing in Amman, jordan? They were going around shooting fireworks, passing out candy, celebrating that three Jews had been killed at the Al-Ambi crossing. So we know that it's a surface thing, but the other part of the surface thing is they are ready to normalize relations with Israel on many scales, because it's a practical thing, because they don't like radical Islam either.

Bill Salus: 21:00

Okay, well, let me break some of that down. Okay, first I want to talk about why Psalm 83 does not imply, in my estimation, anything about a peace agreement. First of all, these countries want to wipe Israel off the map, that the name of Israel will be remembered no more. That's Psalm 83, verse 4. They form a confederacy. Psalm 83, verse 5.

Bill Salus: 21:18

Asaph, the prophet who wrote on Psalm 83 3,000 years ago. He goes through and talks about God petitioning them. Oh my God, this is pick it up, by the way way. Verse 12 tells us they want to take for themselves the passions of god for a possession. They want the promised land. They don't want a jewish state, they don't want a two-state solution. This is being said there. And he goes on to say uh, I'll just skip to the, the bottom parts on 83, verses 13 oh my god, make them like the whirling dust, like chat before the wind and fire that burns the woods and as the flame sets the mountains on fire, pursue them with your tempest and frighten them with your storm.

Bill Salus: 21:56

For their faces, with shame that they may seek your name. Remember that was the goal. Worship like they worshiped Baal, oh lord. Let them be confounded in dismay forever. Just let them put to shame and perish. Shame and perish. Make them perish that they may know that you, whose name alone is the Lord, are the most high over the earth, and that was the plan. I'll bring you back in your lands and swear by my name, as you taught my children to swear by Baal. So Asaph is saying you know, make them ashamed, confounded, confused, use all these images.

Bill Salus: 22:24

He goes on and tells us, in verses 9 through 12, he gives the examples Asaph says do with them like you did with Midian and Sisera and Jabin at the Brook of Kishon, who became their refuge on the earth, like Orban, zeeb, ziba and Zalmunna, etc. He's drawing our attention to Judges, chapters 4-8. At that time, dealing with Gideon, for instance, 6-8, 300 man army, god empowered them and they took out the Midianites who had oppressed them for seven years 20 years I believe it was and they destroyed them and the Midianites from top to bottom, the princes or the kings, zeba and Zalmunna, and the Midianites never again oppressed them. So they took out the inventory, the leaders, infantry and the leaders. Then the other ones, sassara and Jabin. Jabin was the king of the Canaanites, cicero was his general. They oppressed the Jews for seven years. If it was, I could have the years around. Midians may have been seven Midianites. Anyway, the Israeli defense forces, with Deborah the prophetess, took her general Barak, and they destroyed the Canaanites and they never oppressed the Jews again. So I don't see anywhere in here talking about peace. I see. All this is that pretty much Israeli Defense Forces are going to be empowered and they're going to cause major devastation. By the way, the Israeli Defense Forces exist in fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

Bill Salus: 23:43

I can show you numerous prophecies. Let's take a couple right now, real quick. You talked about Jordan, tom and I. You and I did this. If you want to put this up on the back screen, the prophetic documentaries that Tom Hughes and I did, they can find these on that documentary if you find the slide.

Bill Salus: 23:59

But what it says here Jeremiah 49, verse 2. And I don't believe you'll be able to find that this has ever been fulfilled and it says there therefore, behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will cause to be heard an alarm of war in Rabah of the Ammonites, so an alarm of war in Amman, jordan, that's where that would be the capital of Jordan, and it shall be a desolate mound and her villages shall be burned with fire. Then Israel shall take possession of its inheritance, says the Lord. So we have an unfulfilled prophecy dealing with the capital of Jordan. The Israeli defense forces are going to make it a desolate mound. They're going to move in and take over the territory. They're going to annex northern Jordan. They're also going to annex central Jordan at the same time.

Bill Salus: 24:39

And I'll read that one in Zephaniah 2, verses 8 through 9. It says I have heard the reproach. So Moab is central Jordan, ammon is northern Jordan. We just talked about them in Jeremiah, chapter 49. Which they have reproached against my people, that would be the Jews, and they've made arrogant threats against their borders, which is taking place since 1948. It says the residue of my people shall plunder them and the remnant of my people shall possess them. So basically, the IDF will plunder them and the Jews will annex that territory in northern and central Jordan and they'll move in it. And there's more, I can even show on that. I want to talk about Egypt, isaiah 19, 18. So first of all, those two prophecies. There's no peace treaty in those.

John Haller: 25:22

Okay, well, can I ask you a question? Was there anything prophesied about a peace treaty with Jordan, a peace treaty with Egypt or anybody else during this period of time?

Bill Salus: 25:32

Not that I don't find one Right.

John Haller: 25:33

But it happened. That's my point is and we know they're conniving, we know that the Islamic methodology to Qiyah is you know, when you're weak, you make peace with your enemies, and we've seen this happen time and time and time again throughout Islamic history. I just think what I see implied and listen, I know what happens. I'm not saying that this isn't going to happen. Israel's going to prevail. I'm trying to figure out what's how we get there. Is there more there? That's implied in the text, Like I told you last night, implied in the text of Jesus saying hey, pray that your flight in Matthew 24 isn't on Shabbat. Well, that doesn't make any sense, unless there's a Jewish state there that recognizes Shabbat and has things shut down on Shabbat. That's a great point. If that had happened during the Ottomans, they would say well, what's the big deal? We don't recognize Shabbat anyway, we do it on Friday, that's an excellent observation.

Tom Hughes: 26:28

I also think we know, when it comes to peace plans, there's going to be certain things. Something has to happen for the Ezekiel 38 battle to take place. Israel has to dwell with peace and safety. We know the Daniel 9 peace plan, but there's a whole lot of things that can happen in between now and then that other types of peace plans can happen. Just looking at the Abraham Accord, the whole push toward it, which I still don't think is dead, and then that other types of peace plans can happen. Just looking at the Abraham Accord, the whole push toward it, which I still don't think is dead.

John Haller: 26:56

No, and the Jerusalem Post seems to say that it's not, mohammed bin Salman says that it's not, and I think the king dying will make a big difference there, so maybe this is a way to go about it. It just occurs to me I really miss doing depositions where I get to grill a witness.

Bill Salus: 27:15

No and no you should. I think you're right, bill.

John Haller: 27:19

Yeah, we forgot to put your hand on the bio-referent. So we talk about I mean, you talk a lot about the covenant, the covenant with death and hell. So who's that with and who are the players in that? Because that's really death and hell are identified. But that's about it, if I understand it.

Bill Salus: 27:38

So we're going to go all the way from left field to right field.

Bill Salus: 27:40

That's right, that's okay, I'm here for you guys to talk about all this stuff. Angels in the outfield. Well, you bring up Isaiah 28, verses 15. Right, okay, and that's another proof text.

Bill Salus: 27:51

In my estimation, even written before Daniel 9 27, there was more information about the false covenant. We call it a false covenant and I'll explain that why in Isaiah 28, verses 15. So Daniel tells us in Daniel 9 27, there's gonna be a covenant confirmed by the Antichrist. You may be may have written it, he may be a part of it, but all we know is he's confirming it, like Bill Clinton confirmed a peace treaty between Jordan and Egypt. I mean Israel, jimmy Carter, egypt, oslo Accords. Right, right, it's going to be for seven years. It's going to be probably enable the sacrifices. So it probably has something to do with the implementation of the temple.

Bill Salus: 28:27

He's given us these important information. It's with the, the many, but he doesn't tell us who the many are. We know it's going to be violated in the mid part of the tribulation. Those are really important details for seven years. But who are the signatories? What is Israel's motivation, etc. So we have to turn our attention to Isaiah 28, 15 for those details.

Bill Salus: 28:46

You've made a covenant with death. You have an agreement with Sheol when the overflowing scourge comes upon you. And you make this covenant in lies and falsehood. So we find out who the many is and we have to put a face on them. Who is death and Sheol? The Hebrew word? The Greek word would be Hades.

Bill Salus: 29:03

We find out the other details of the second signatory. They're perpetrating, or have the ability to stop perpetrating, an overflowing scourge that's sweeping through the planet, that Israel does not want to be overtaken by. And they do this covenant and it lies in falsehood. That's why it's a false covenant. They're doing it because it's politically expedient, not because they agree with the death and Sheol, whoever they are. So who are they and when does this covenant begin? Death and Sheol, in my estimation. Okay, I'm known as a star trek eschatologist, but I will scripturally support this. Um, that was the name david reagan gave me years ago on a magazine. He put he who dares to go when no other man has gone before. Um, but you have right, there is. Uh, if you look, antichrist most of us would teach shows up in the first seal judgment as the white horseman. That's common teaching. Some disagree, but that's pretty common.

John Haller: 29:55

I probably am less inclined to go with that now, but I know where you're coming from.

Bill Salus: 29:59

But you know, that's what it's traditionally taught and I adhere to that. So we have the confirmers on the scene. The covenant could begin then. Israel is on the scene. They have a relationship with the Antichrist at that point. But is the other signatory on the scene? I don't think so yet, because that's death and Sheol. And when do they come up on the scene? And what is the overflowing scourge that they're perpetrating? In my estimation, they show up on the scene under the fourth horseman death and Hades. Hades is a Greek word for shield, and they have authority over a quarter of the earth. Some people say they're killing a quarter of the earth.

John Haller: 30:34

We agree 100% on that one. Everybody else is wrong.

Bill Salus: 30:38

They have power over a quarter of the earth or authority over a quarter of the earth to kill. They have authority, they can do anything, but they don't kill.

John Haller: 30:45

They have absolute power.

Tom Hughes: 30:46

They have absolute power. I know you don't believe they necessarily means they kill a quarter of the earth.

Bill Salus: 30:52

But they could, they have the power to, I think, a quarter of the earth. They could kill a lot, more than a quarter of the earth, but that's what it says there.

Tom Hughes: 30:58

They've given authority over a quarter of the earth To kill.

Bill Salus: 31:01

And they are killing people. And who are they killing? Well, among the dissidents that don't agree with whatever they're perpetrating. Their counterfeit gospel, in my estimation, are the fifth seal saints, the very next seal Right, and they're martyred for their faith and they're asking God how much longer until they're avenged for their deaths. And I think that's a very telling question, because I believe there's a gap after the rapture, before the tribulation, because it's not the rapture that starts the tribulation, it's the covenant we're talking about that starts the seven-year tribulation.

John Haller: 31:31

So, mr Salas, to summarize your testimony here or you say no, I just I mean. So I guess my point is we don't really have the covenant confirmed with the many. We have general outline but not specifics. We don't know who they are, but not specifics. We don't know who they are, but if you transpose it onto the seal judgments as part of it, see, my view is these things unfold over time and they increase. So my view is that court of the earth right now, that's Islamic. I mean it fits very well, whether everybody agrees with it or not, and they would have a reason to do that. They're weak, they figure well, we'll get strong, and then, if abomination of desolation takes place, they're ready. Now we're ready to go, we're going to break that covenant. That's one interpretation of that, and I know that that's not necessarily traditional. But I guess my point is we don't have the specific signatories to the covenant identified. I think the Oslo Accords.

Bill Salus: 32:41

I think we only know who Devin Hades represents.

John Haller: 32:44

I'll tell you that in a moment. Okay, well, I want to hear that before I.

Bill Salus: 32:49

First of all, I want to think about the possibility, john, that if Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 happen, which involve primarily Muslim nations except Russia and Ezekiel 38, you're going to lose about 600,000 to 800,000 Muslims within Psalm 83 countries and Ezekiel 38 countries. Islam will not be gone, it will be heavily compromised, but these are the hardcore Muslims taking up before the trip, and I know you don't think Ezekiel 38 is a pre-trib prophecy, but I do. I think you might be wrong.

John Haller: 33:17

I know you do too.

Bill Salus: 33:18

But let's assume they are Okay. All of a sudden, now Islam is. All is lost. Is Akbar, his greatness.

John Haller: 33:23

Yeah, my view is that the final defeat of Islam comes when Jesus returns. That's the ultimate thing, and I just I don't see. So I'm looking. So I'm a pragmatic guy, so I'm looking. Let's just take Gaza as the most recent example. Gaza is destroyed. Okay, it's Israel's prevailed, but they still have a massive problem with these people. They've killed tens of thousands, and so I'm just saying this I don't know if killing 500,000 is going to make that much difference.

Tom Hughes: 33:57

Well, here's the other problem Because of the war in Gaza. It's given this inspiration to some evil people within Judea and Samaria to jump on board with Hamas. You have 85%, 85, 90, 95. Board with Hamas. Would you have 85%? You said the other day 85, 90, 95% support Hamas. Support Hamas that live in Judea and Samaria, so that and the Arabs that live within Israel. Yeah, so outside of Judea and Samaria.

John Haller: 34:26

Correct Within the borders of Israel. Within the borders of Israel, there's about 2 million Arabs. Yeah, okay, okay. Well, that would include Nazareth.

Tom Hughes: 34:30

Correct Within the borders of Israel. Within the borders of Israel, there's about two million areas. Yeah, okay, okay, well, that would include Nazareth. That would include all these different areas, correct? So what has happened so far in Gaza? It has created this call. I guess they would probably say they have.

John Haller: 34:46

It's a recruiting tool. That's exactly what it is, and so I just think the problem is much. You know, I talk to people and I know God's involved in this. I'm not denying that, but I'm just sorry. I'm a pragmatic guy and I'm looking at it and it's like this is just this massive problem that they have with all these people all around and Hezbollah, and let me phrase it this way.

John Haller: 35:12

So I asked my friends in Jerusalem, the security in Israel, security people okay, everybody wanted to talk about the day after Gaza, the day after Hamas. I said well, why don't we go to the day before October 7th? What should Israel have done? If they knew, and they really believed, this was going to happen? What should Israel have done at that time? Well, they should have prevented the stuff on October 7th. I said you're not answering. If I was in a court you're not your Honor would you make the witness answer the question? Because they're not answering the question. The question is what would you have done? And I'm telling you that if Benjamin Netanyahu and the defense establishment in Israel, on October 6th, had gone in, what would they have done? They would have done what they've done since October 7th in Gaza. How do you think the world would have reacted to that without 1,000 or 1,200 or 2,000 dead Israelis? You think that the reaction of the world would be less? Or they would say, oh well, that's OK, because you're defending it would be many times, it would be exponentially worse, is my view. And so now they've done that. Now they've got to do Hezbollah. They've evacuated 80,000 to 100,000 people from the north of Israel. Hezbollah is shrinking the land.

John Haller: 36:28

And I've showed you that poster. I think I used it at the conference over the weekend. Tehran Palestinian Square, which is called Philistine Square in Farsi and Philistine is also the word in Turkish and, by the way, philistine means invader. So how would you like to know that Palestinians eventually understand that the term from them comes from invaders, not residents of the land. But it's a huge problem. And the poster there in Hebrew said are you ready for two million displaced people north? Their goal is to continue to shrink Israel until everybody gets up and goes away. Now we know that's not going to happen, but I'm just trying to look at the steps from where we get from here to this, as you guys were just talking about last week. Ezekiel 38, verse 11 or 12, talks about dwelling in peace and security, unwalled fences. I'll be honest with you I do not see how that happens in today's world, unless they completely destroy everybody first. But I'm not sure that it even works that way. I don't either. Let me do this real quick. I know we're over time.

Tom Hughes: 37:39

And then I'm going to turn it over to you. I want to encourage you to like and subscribe and share this program with your friends. It's the only way we can get the word out there. It's a great program too, and able to go back and forth about what the Bible actually says about the days that we live in, and it helps us to combat all of the lies with the truth. And it helps us to combat all of the lies with the truth. And when we just think of the nation of Israel, the propaganda is definitely against them. But this is just a way that you can say, hey, what can I do? Like, subscribe and share.

Tom Hughes: 38:14

And also, we do have our Israel trip coming up in March. I would love to have you go with us and you can see what Israel is really like. And again, we won't go to the war areas. Believe me, you're going to have a great time. We're going to explore neat things. Go to the Pool of Siloam, Mount of Olives, you see all these incredible places, Valley of Elah and so many other places. But if you can join us in March, Okay, Bill, with everything John just said, what say you?

Bill Salus: 38:43

All right, so we're going to go from right field back to left field. Okay, how do we get from there to here? Remember what we opened with there, that God established nations and compassion for the Arab states so they could go there, and if they'd serve by him, that'd be great. If not, they're going to be destroyed. That's what he said. How is he going to destroy them? It's going to be these really defense forces.

Bill Salus: 39:08

We have a remember in ezekiel 38, which is a very big deal. It says israel is in a condition with a dwelling, securely, tranquilly, without walls, bars, more gates, in the midst of the land, with a great plunder and booty, because that's what russia's coalition's coming after. How do they get to that condition with the drawing, securely? Ezekiel tells us if us, we have a slide, if we can get there, if you hear me back there, let's go to the one that says on the top no longer will Israel's scornful neighbors prick and tear at her like briars and thorns. That's Ezekiel 28, verses 24. Okay, you see it up there. Okay, here's how the process is going to go, with the Israeli defense forces being empowered by God. Those countries that God established and put those in them plucked them out. They became a pricking briar and a painful thorn to Israel. Rather than swearing by Allah, excuse me, by God, and going peacefully in the midst of God's people, the Jews, they have chosen to become a pricking briar and a painful thorn. And it tells us there that they in Ezekiel 20, verse 24, israel no longer has these scornful neighbors, evil neighbors we talked about in Jeremiah, that prick and tear at her like briars, for then they will know that I am the sovereign Lord. And here's how it's going to happen. He goes on to say show who the pricking briar is. There's a map. The next slide there's pricking briar. Is there's a map? Next, the next slide there's no longer be a pricking briar, if we can get the map up there. The next slide okay, yeah, okay, that's the nations around israel. They've been a pricking briar and a painful thorn. Keep that image in mind as we go to the next slide. Oh, it says israel will dwell securely when okay, well, here's when israel is going to dwell securely. It says Israel will dwell securely when Okay, well, here's when Israel is going to dwell securely.

Bill Salus: 40:43

The next verse is 25 through 26. It says Thus, says the Lord, when I have gathered the house of Israel, from the peoples among whom they are scattered and have hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles. Then they shall dwell on their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob, and they will dwell safely there and they will build homes and plant vineyards. Yes, they will dwell securely, but when, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them, then they shall know that I'm the Lord, their God. So, basically, what we had here, as you looked at that image before, the very nations that God called evil neighbors, that he gave their estates to, that he's going to utterly pluck up and destroy. They serve to be like a pricking briar and a painful thorn from God's perspective. God says in the passage we just read that Israel is supposed to be a safe, dwelling, home building, vineyard planting nation, and they will be ultimately. But they are being prevented by doing that because there's a painful thorn and a pricking briar all around them. They have turned against God's will and they're worshiping Allah and they will be destroyed.

Bill Salus: 41:44

In the Israeli Defense Forces they can name every one of those places and in our prophetic document they can name every prophecy that relates to the destruction in Jordan, the war with Saudi Arabia. There's four prophecies of Saudi Arabia Hezbollah, egypt, assyria. Of course we've got the destruction of Damascus we can talk about too. So I can show and I do in our documentary Tom and in my Psalm 83 book and my Future War Prophecies book I can show all the related prophecies that show you how God executes judgment to these related defense forces upon those around them who despise them, that are not enabling Israel to be a safe dwelling, country, home building and vineyard planting.

Bill Salus: 42:24

Matter of fact, they're starting fires all over. Hezbollah's weapons are starting fires all over the northern part of Israel when they send bombs. They just hit an apartment recently with a drone. There's about 80,000 people evacuated out of northern Israel that can't get back into their homes. Can you imagine that's been about 11 months now. Can you imagine being kicked out of your home 11 months ago and not being able to go back to it and not live in it, not being able to go back to your business? That sort of thing? That's what's going on in Israel right now.

Tom Hughes: 42:55

We were there in March and met several different people that had been evacuated from the North and in March they were talking about how much they were. I mean you could see the stress on them, distress. They just wanted to go back home way back in March. And, by the way, the prophetic documentary and Bill's books are available in the Hope for Our Times store. If you want to look at those, get more info. They're fantastic to really educate you and learn these things.

John Haller: 43:25

But I mean you've seen it and again you interview people from Alma Zeritza, havi and the other researchers there, and you know so. I asked one. His name is Avraham Levine. This was probably four or five months ago. I asked him, avraham, what happens if war breaks out with Hezbollah On a big scale? Not this little back and forth, tit for tat, really minor stuff. What happens if there's really war? And you know what he said to me.

John Haller: 43:55

This is an Orthodox Jewish guy, captain in the IDF reserves, served in Gaza, actually was in Gaza for a while. He has a son in Gaza now has eight children. He lives one mile from the border, syrian border in the Golan. He says if war breaks out with Hezbollah, no child will go to school anywhere in Israel for a year. Now we know what's happened with the 80,000 that evacuated. They're now in the point where their kids are starting their second year of no school. This is not sustainable on any level, and so I know all these nations get destroyed. I'm just like I'm trying to do some righteous speculation on the interim steps. I believe these, that they're destroyed, but who does it, how and when? And I think it's more around the return of the Lord and Armageddon and that type of thing, but there's a huge buildup of wars in between now and then as well.

Bill Salus: 44:58

So you make a good point when you ask the question what would happen if a major war with Hezbollah broke out? I'm actually going to paraphrase I don't have the slide to put up front, but what the Israel National News put forward, a study with that very thing in mind, and what they basically said was that they expected in the first phase, the first few days, hezbollah would launch 6,000 missiles a day. They are preparing for days-long blackouts, hundreds dead, thousands wounded. They've already got triages set up in parking lots, under hospitals, so they're already set up there in Tel Aviv and in northern Haifa and places like that. It goes on to say in phase two they'll taper down to about 2,000 effective missiles per taper, down to about 2000 effective missiles per day. 2000 effective missiles meaning not falling indiscriminately in fields being taken out by the Iron Dome, killing civilians, hitting Tel Aviv as well, as can hit all these places.

John Haller: 45:55

And I can't remember her name now.

Bill Salus: 45:56

Basically, that's what Israel is preparing for multi-front war casualties thousands of missiles coming in at that level. Matter of fact, in August of 2024, this past month, in the 11-month conflict with Hezbollah in Israel and Hamas in Israel, the largest amount of missiles flying in from Hezbollah into Israel was registered in August of last month. This last month, 1,304 missiles came in in August from Hezbollah to Israel. There's been over as of June, there's been over 7,500 cross-border conflicts between Hezbollah and Israel to the north. And that's like you're saying. That's just phase one. Phase two is when they start launching 6,000 missiles a day, syria starts coming at them with chemical weapons. Probably Iran might even get in the fray. Of course, hamas, if they're still around, will be doing what they can, et cetera. She had militias in Iraq, the Houthis, the West Bank explodes.

John Haller: 46:49

The West Bank now is really percolating Right and the West Bank will literally explode.

Bill Salus: 46:53

Yeah, so we're talking about a war of epic biblical proportion.

Tom Hughes: 46:57

Right, so yeah, with what John just said, you have the West Bank. It just explodes. You have all these terror groups. They're not official, but they're big. In fact, I did see a video this morning of as soon as the IDF left Janine. I don't know if you guys saw that all of these guys were dressed like ISIS, basically coming out of the houses, out of the holes in the ground, out of Jenin.

John Haller: 47:24

Can I jump on that just a little this morning? Remember the Turkish-American activist killed in Nablus the other day. She received a military funeral in Nablus today. Caroline Glick just posted it on her Twitter account. Gaddy Taub, who we all like and respect, used to be a man of the left. He posted this morning the guys marching in full ISIS and terrorist guild with the black balaclavas down the street. I think it was noblest. He said okay, how about now, idf? How about now? How about you deal with this now? It's not being dealt with and it needs to be, and I know it will be, but we're kind of sitting here trying to figure out how this plays into the script, right?

Tom Hughes: 48:11

so this thing is going to get enormously large is what it looks like. We do know. Ultimately, you get into the tribulation period. Daniel, chapter 12,. God says "'I will shatter the power of the holy people'". It's going to get there, but it's not there yet. Everything is building and building and building. The pressure against Israel is unbelievable. Will it take a nuclear bomb by Israel? What's it gonna take to be able to stop Iran from funding and all of these different things that are going on? And eventually Iran's going to partner with Russia and Turkey and come against Israel. So you look at these different dynamics. Do you believe Isaiah 17 is a future prophecy? Well, I certainly do.

John Haller: 48:59

But that also has with it and I think Bill will point this out too it's not just the destruction of Damascus. It talks about Ephraim, which I think would be the northern part of Israel, it gets devastated.

John Haller: 49:12

And so we all want this to be perfect and Israel and all this other stuff. But you know, what I see is tremendous pain and suffering. And Mary Eisen, who's an IDF reserve she would be called a centrist in Israel, which means she's probably against Netanyahu which means she's probably against Netanyahu, but she's IDF security person works at the Counterterrorism Institute at one of the universities there. She was on Elon Levy's program a few months ago and she said when this war starts, israel will sustain INSS did a big war game of it. They will sustain 200 to 500 dead Israelis a day for two weeks to two months. Now we need to understand what this is. We know.

John Haller: 50:05

God's involved in this, but we also need to be pragmatic and correct. And it says it will shatter the holy people. Well, what does that mean? Does that mean that, oh well, they're going to have some. You know they're not going to be able to get milk for a week. That's not what it means. You know that we know that.

Bill Salus: 50:20

Okay, so I want to talk about Damascus for a minute.

John Haller: 50:22

Sure, we've actually got a slide, we'll put up in a minute.

Bill Salus: 50:25

Before I do that, I want to talk about these Israeli defense forces for Defense Forces for a moment. The Israeli Defense Forces we can pretty much logically deduce are not going to fight in the Tribulation, the first half of the Tribulation. So anything we talk about with the Israeli Defense Forces has to be either after the Tribulation not likely or before the Tribulation highly likely. We're seeing their existence right now. Why are they not fighting in the Tribulation? Well, in the first half of the Tribulation they're feeling they're at a peace. Because of the confirmation of the false covenant. They feel they're living in a peace. It's a pseudo-peace because the Antichrist violates it at the mid-part of the Trib when he goes into the Temple and sets up the abomination of desolation. At that point Jesus says in Matthew 24, you guys flee immediately because he knows Zechariah 13.8 is going to happen. When two-thirds of the Jews are going to be cut off by the Antichrist in the land, a third will come through that, the faithful remnant. So they're going to be fleeing for their lives and not fighting off all these Arab countries around them. So I put all this stuff pre-tribulation. Will they pull out a nuclear weapon out of the shelf. It looks like they will in Isaiah 17.

Bill Salus: 51:25

Can you get the slide up there that talks about Damascus gets destroyed? Okay, three about Damascus gets destroyed? Okay, three key verses here. There's more, hopefully, we could be able to get into. But right now we're told that the oldest continuously inhabited city and recorded history dates back to the time of Abraham. It's the capital of Syria. Someday, the burden against Damascus, behold, damascus will cease from being a city and it will be a ruinous heap. So no, one morning you're going to wake up. You'll find out in verse 14, the city's going to be gone.

Bill Salus: 51:55

We're told about who does this? Some people say the Assyrian Empire did this in 722 BC. But Isaiah writes in his 66 chapters about Assyria or Assyrian 41 times and never once here. But he tells us who it is. In verse 9 it says in that day his strong cities, not just Damascus, but other strong cities inside of Syria, will be as a forsaken vow in an ever most branch which they left because of the children of Israel, and there will be desolation caused by the children of Israel. I would stop right there for a minute and basically say the other strong cities we find out in Jeremiah, chapter 49, verses 23 through 27, but ancient names are Hamath and Arpad, and that would represent Aleppo, homs and Hama. A matter of fact, today, as I was driving here, I read a headline that Israel just struck in Hama and killed 14 people and injured 43 more. Four of them are fatal. So they're already striking these cities. They struck the Aleppo airport, they've been striking Damascus airport, etc.

John Haller: 52:55

By the way, I believe the IDF has said that was a major weapons production facility.

Bill Salus: 53:01

They're very strategic in what they're doing, but it goes on to tell us how this happens overnight. It says in verse 14, Behold, at eventide, you see him in trouble in the morning and he is no more. This is the portion of those who plunder us and the lot of those who rob us, meaning in self-defense. Overnight, Israel takes out the city. Now Israel has the weaponry to do that overnight.

Bill Salus: 53:24

A nuclear weapon, an EMP I'm not a physicist here, but basically if you launch it at burst altitude 45 miles above a city, it'll take out the city. It'll go down, the mushroom cloud will come up, but it will not suck up all the contaminant materials, the dust particles, which would be a problem for Israel, because it would then go over into Tel Aviv or whatever with wind patterns. I also think there may be a nuclear weapon in Jeremiah, chapter 49 too, that we talked about, where it says Damascus and Amman, Jordan, a war of an alarm of war in Rabbah, the Ammonites. It'll be a desolate mound. Now it's real close to Damascus and I think that may be nuclear too. I don't know for sure.

John Haller: 54:03

Do you think Edom are the Palestinians?

Bill Salus: 54:07

Oh yeah, I agree okay.

John Haller: 54:08

Yeah, isaiah, jeremiah 49,. Sometimes you don't, always, I'm not saying you don't, but the end of the chapter says that Edom will also be an astonishment. Everybody who goes by it will be astonished and will hiss at its plagues, as in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah. And it goes down here in the earth shakes at the noise of their fall, talking about Edom. The earth shakes at the noise of their fall, talking about Edom. And then it says at the cry, its noise is heard at the Red Sea. That's kind of interesting in light of because what we're talking about the Red Sea all the time.

Bill Salus: 54:41

Well, the Edomites show up in Psalm 83, the very first member of the 10 member population coalition as the tenth of Edom. They're identified in the habitation condition Tents would be in this case, in my estimation, refugee conditions. They became reality the Palestinian refugees in 1949, after the war of 1948. And we know that that's what the Arab countries have been bantering their plight for. And you talk about the Saudi Arabia, maybe, normalizing relationships with Israel under the condition that there'll be a Palestinian state. In other words, they're, they're supporting the Palestinian plight, as is all the other states because they don't want them.

John Haller: 55:19

They don't want them, they, they each wouldn't take ten of them if they could get away with it. I mean, I get and I could show you pictures of the yarmulke refugee camp and within the city limits of Damascus that looks like I would say, look, oh, look at that. And everybody said, oh, look at what Israel did. They got. No, no, that's what Syria and Russia did to the Mook refugee camp in Damascus. It looks the same.

John Haller: 55:43

How many protests, how many people marched at Columbia University or Cal what's the place down here, cal Irvine, or anything like that about they? Nobody did, they don't care. This is about hating on the Jews and we Cal what's the place down here, cal Irvine, or anything like that about? They know what he did, they don't care. This is about hating on the Jews and we all know that at our heart. But Edom's mentioned I mean, obadiah mentions it, I think Ezekiel 35 that talks about this arrogant, haughty people in the mountains of Israel that say, hey, it's our land, you're coming back to our land. It fits so perfectly with what we're seeing today. And now I need to shut off my mic, probably Because this is so fascinating to me really.

Bill Salus: 56:20

Well, and you remember when Israel was saying we're going to go into Rafah Crossing and Egypt says don't do that, we don't want to absorb any of the Palestinian refugees. Jordan said the same thing we don't want any Palestinians coming over there.

John Haller: 56:32

The queen of Jordan is a Palestinian.

Bill Salus: 56:37

Here's an interesting prophecy. I'm not going to expand upon it too much. I do get into it in my Psalm 83 book, dealing with the Edomites. Edomites have ethical representation into the Palestinians. There's several ways of migration I put forward in my Psalm 83 book that show how they made their way from southern Jordan, ancient Edom, into Hebron and of course that's the main area for them right now.

Bill Salus: 56:58

It says this interesting thing in Obadiah 1.7. All the men in your confederacy and I would say maybe that's the Psalm 83 confederacy all these Arabs in your confederacy dealing with the Edomites, palestinians, they shall force you to the border. The men at peace with you shall deceive you and prevail against you. Those who eat your bread shall lay a trap for you and no one is aware of it. So if this is possible, it could be the very thing that they're forcing them to the borders the front line of defense for the Arab states, be an obstacle for Israel.

Bill Salus: 57:30

You can do our dirty work, we'll have clean hands. Force you to the border. We don't want you in our countries and it's a trap for them. In other words, they think they're going to get a state and they're not going to get a state. They're going to be destroyed. They're just going to take out all these countries. Now that's I have to explain why I'm going there for that. But just read that on your own Obadiah 1-7, and see if it does apply to what we're talking about right here.

John Haller: 57:52

Absolutely on board. I guess one thing I would encourage is, you know, I sit here, I go to these process concerts too, even when I'm speaking, and I listen and I see some things that I'm not sure I like. Like, I see people kind of dumping on the Jews in Israel going well, they're not believers yet. Well, like, yeah, the church is so perfect. I think we need to be careful about that. And then the other thing too is I think is and I will give Bill a lot of credit for this who's piecing these things together?

John Haller: 58:23

There's also the concept of double fulfillment and everything that we seem to gloss over. So maybe Isaiah 17 sort of happened before, but there's a double fulfillment of the prophecy. We need to always factor that, or the prophecy's pattern, Right, and there's nothing in the scripture that says, well, this one's going to be filled sort of one time and really fulfilled a second time or third time. It doesn't give us a clue to that. So we need to be aware of all the scriptures and how they fit together, and I will give Bill a lot of credit for helping sort of open my eyes to the fact that these scriptures are far more intricate and interrelated, and I don't think we're at the full understanding yet that's my point of why I'm raising the question. It's not because I don't like Bill or love Bill, but it's just that I think we need to be in the Word, because we're going to see a lot of things and we're going to say oh yeah, that's what that was talking about. That's how that relates.

Tom Hughes: 59:29

In Daniel, chapter 12, where the angel's telling Daniel the wicked, in that day. The wicked will see it, they will not understand, but the wise will understand. And the implication all through Daniel 12 is this growing knowledge to and fro in the Word. It's for the people who are living in that day. So we will continue, if we're searching the Scriptures, to have a progressive revelation about the things that are taking place. We'll have the aha moments go, that's even you were talking about the other night.

John Haller: 1:00:00

I've heard this Ohio guy talking about Bible prophecy, and one of those things he's talking about is a future understanding. Well, there you go. Oh, never mind.

Tom Hughes: 1:00:08

I shouldn't. Well, yeah, but I mean, even when we we look at, like we were talking about the other night, when you start looking at archaeology, it's amazing. More and more that's discovered with archaeology just proves the bible's true and all of the. It really helps to understand the last day's prophecies because you can see the old, the old testament come to life, new testament come to life and that in that is the same progressive revelation, all taking place at the same time. It's truly amazing.

John Haller: 1:00:36

It all coincided like with the beginnings of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire that Bill talked about earlier. People were able to get in there and do archaeology and dig things up and everything and I think, as Joel has said, they haven't even excavated 1% of the things that are there.

Tom Hughes: 1:00:54

It's exciting. I mean, I love going to Israel for these things and seeing them and they come to life and you do have the wow factor everywhere you go. I never grew up wanting to be an archaeologist. Now I get so excited about archaeology. But all of these things prove the Bible is true. And regarding the second coming of Christ Bill, we're actually over Over.

Bill Salus: 1:01:19

Okay, we're actually over. I'll let him go by.

Tom Hughes: 1:01:23

But and we need to do this again Next time, john, you're in town in Southern California, we need to do this again.

John Haller: 1:01:28

We'll be here in November.

Tom Hughes: 1:01:30

We can do it in November. I feel like we just got started for this and we have a lot more to cover, so we need to do part two. But how can people connect with you, bill?

Bill Salus: 1:01:39

They can reach me at my website, prophecydepotcom prophecydepot, like homedepotcom, and you'll see my articles. We've got a YouTube channel. Just type in Bill Salus S-A-L-U-S. You'll find it. Go there, subscribe, watch all the videos. We post your stuff on as well stuff we do together and we also have a prophecyheadlinescom, a daily news paper we put forward looking at current events through the prophetic lens. Prophecyheadlinescom.

John Haller: 1:02:08

And John Fellowship Bible Chapel fbchapelcomcom. Youtube, fellowship Bible Chapel, or my name and Rumble Real FBC. We also have an app Fellowship Bible Chapel. I don't have time to manage all this, so I understand. We post stuff on the app and that type of thing. I don't have a book yet. You need a book. Well, I think I'm thinking of a title. My working title is the Day when Everyone Agrees With Me, or something like that, something humble like that.

Tom Hughes: 1:02:39

You should write a book on how I became so humble.

John Haller: 1:02:42

That's right, but they say you should keep it to like 900 pages, right. So I'm joking. But listen, it's an exciting time to live and all of these things are like. You know, I talk about convergence and acceleration all the time and it's really happening right now. This is different. Just go look at your Twitter feed. It's incredible what's happening. How is this gal getting a military funeral in Nablus, the seat of this terrorism? So, anyway, it's an incredible time to be alive.

Tom Hughes: 1:03:20

It is. Thank you guys both for joining me. It was great. And we do have our conference coming up in November the End of the World Conference. This is not the end of the world, but it is following the election, the Friday after the election. So it's going to seem like the end of the world to a whole lot of people, but it's going to be a great conference. So that's going to be at 412 Church in Temecula. Hope that you can all see us there and we'll do this again in November. It'll be great, or maybe a roundtable before then, if I prefer to have you in person. It was great having you in person.

Tom Hughes: 1:03:51

This is a great setting. I hope to do a lot more of these.

John Haller: 1:03:54

Perfect.

Tom Hughes: 1:03:54

And Bill, you're easy because you're close. I'm close. But thank you everybody for joining us and looking forward to seeing you tomorrow also, as we continue with our daily news updates and we will have our app and website exclusive on Wednesday, hopeforourtimescom. So go there too, check it out. God bless you everybody, the you you.