Amos 3:7 A Love of The Truth
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Amos 3:7 A Love of The Truth
The Hidden Dangers of Cults in Christianity & Masonic Secrets
A Classic in Apologetics on "The Distinctiveness of Christianity" and a journey through the shadowy realms of Christian Cults and deceptive doctrines with Dr. David Reagan and cult expert Dr. Ron Carlson. This episode peels back the layers of pseudo-Christian groups like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, exposing the discrepancies between their teachings and historic Christian beliefs. Together, we confront the sobering impact of religious organizations that have strayed far from Scriptural truths, leading many down a path of tragic deception.
In a historical look at faith and deception, Dr. Carlson shares personal stories and experiences, highlighting the importance of encouraging questions and doubts within one's spiritual journey to fortify convictions in the face of cultish allure. In a world where Cults Twist Christian Terminology to fit their agendas, and deceive. We equip you with the tools of discernment needed to identify genuine gospel teachings. We also dive into the contentious issues within Mormonism, discussing their redefinitions of Christian concepts and the implications for those who encounter their well-trained missionaries.
In the final stretch, attention turns to Freemasonry, shedding light on its rituals and beliefs that starkly contrast with the Christian faith. Dr. Carlson's insights into the incompatibility of Masonic practices with Christian doctrine serve as a stark warning to believers. With clarity and conviction, this episode stands as a call to vigilance and knowledge, empowering you to defend the faith against the encroachment of distorted messages and to hold fast to the unchanging truth of the gospel.
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In Prophecy, a program that focuses on the fundamentals of Bible prophecy, showing how current events in the news relate to biblical predictions of end-time events and the soon return of Jesus. Now here's your host, dr David Reagan.
Speaker 2:Greetings in the name of Jesus, our blessed hope. I'm Dave Reagan, Senior Evangelist for Lamb Lion Ministries. This week I am delighted to have as my special guest Dr Ron Carlson, one of Christendom's most renowned experts on cults and world religions. Dr Carlson is the founder and director of Christian Ministries International, whose home base is located in Minnetonka, Minnesota. Dr Carlson, welcome to Texas. Hey, it's great to be with you. I've been looking forward to this special time. Well, I know it's always a great blessing to you to come to God's country down here in Texas, right.
Speaker 3:Well, you could almost live down here.
Speaker 2:It's not bad. I'll tell you, Dr Carlson, tell us, how in the world would you define a cult? What is a cult?
Speaker 3:Dave, there are actually four categories of what we refer to today as non-Christian cults. The first category is what we call the pseudo-Christian or false Christian cults. These are organizations which will claim to be Christian, claim to believe the Bible, but instead of building their teaching from God's word, they claim to have some new revelation or some man-made teaching greater than the Bible, through which they interpret the Bible. They end up denying the basic doctrines of historic biblical Christianity, and you have groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons and other groups.
Speaker 3:A second category we talk about are what are called the Oriental cults, those that have their basis in Oriental or Eastern philosophy, hinduism and Buddhism. You have things like the Hare Krishna movement, christian consciousness, we have transcendental meditation of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, we have the divine light mission of Maharaj Ji, yoga and many other things. Today in America, they're seeking to say that we're part of an impersonal universe and they say the reason why people suffer in life is because they think they're part of a personal reality. And so they're part of a personal reality and so they're trying to transcend, through transcendental meditation or yoga meditation, to become part of the impersonal universe of Hinduism.
Speaker 2:Well, now in this series with you, what I want to do is to focus in on really the Christian cults, the groups that claim to be Christian but really are teaching a false Jesus. In the introduction of this program I mentioned that there has been a literal explosion of cults. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3:Dr. Yeah, there has. And you know, the term cult really came to people's attention for the first time back in November of 1978 when we had the headlines that read 913 Americans Commit Mass Suicide in Jonestown, guyana. And that was the first time many people had ever heard the term cult. And it was interesting that Jim Jones, who had begun as a legitimate Christian minister, gathered a group of followers around him, claimed that he was the voice of God, the prophet of God on earth, took them down to South America where he claimed to be Jesus Christ himself and he so convinced those people that he was God's voice, he was God's prophet that when he told them to drink poison, 900 Americans committed mass suicide. And people said how could this happen?
Speaker 3:And it's interesting to me that the commander of the US forces who went down to Jonestown, guyana, to clean the camp out and bring the bodies back for burial, he was a Christian and when he returned to America with the bodies he made an interesting statement. He said you know the thing which interested him most about Jonestown. He said, when they cleaned the camp out, they did not find a single Bible in all of Jonestown. Oh my, not a single Bible. And Jim Jones had so effectively replaced the Bible with his own man-made theology and teaching. And this is what we see in the cults today. The cults want to take you away from God's word to follow after some man or some man-made teaching or so-called new revelation contrary to God's word. And that's why we're admonished over and over in Scripture to test all things by God's word. Hold fast to that which is true and good.
Speaker 2:Dr. Now one of the things that I would like for you to do is to tell us for a moment about some of the characteristics of Christian cults. So we're talking about Masons, jehovah's Witnesses, the Unity Church, reverend Moon, and so forth. There are certain things that I have found these cults all have in common. What would be some of those things that would characterize all of them, dr?
Speaker 3:Yeah, all the cults. One of the things that you find is that they all attack the deity of Jesus Christ. Dr. Okay, Dr. They all will claim that Jesus Christ is either a man or a prophet, or simply a consciousness, and they all want to do away with the deity of Christ. Because once they do away with the deity of Jesus Christ, then they do away with his basis of salvation his death on the cross as the eternal.
Speaker 2:Lamb of God. So they're all teaching a false Jesus. Yeah, all right. For example, who would the Mormons say that Jesus is?
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting. You know, in 2 Corinthians 11, verse 3 and 4, paul warns the church in Corinth. He says there's going to come in the last days, another Jesus, another gospel, another spirit. And we today have a smorgasbord of Jesus Christ being served up to the public and many of your listeners have Jehovah's Witnesses knock at their door and you can ask a Jehovah's Witness do you believe in Jesus Christ? And they'll smile and say absolutely yes, and a lot of Christians go oh well, that's what I believe too and they'll shut the door.
Speaker 3:But if you ask them the second question who is Jesus Christ? They will tell you that Jesus Christ is the archangel Michael, the first creation made by God, who came to earth as a man and died on a stake and rose invisibly as a ghost. You can have Mormon missionaries come to your front door and they'll have little name, takes on their lapel and they'll say we're from the church of Jesus Christ. We'd like to tell you about Jesus. Mormons teach that Jesus Christ is simply a man who evolved to become a god. They say he's simply one god in a pantheon of gods. Every Mormon believes and teaches that Jesus and Satan are brothers, dr.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, I had a fellow tell me one time that you can be wrong about a whole lot of things, but if you're right about Jesus you can be saved. But on the other hand, if you can be right about a whole lot of things and be wrong about Jesus and be lost, dr. Yeah, dr. So the cults are characterized by teaching a false Jesus, a Jesus who is not the Jesus of the Bible, dr Right.
Speaker 3:They also add some new revelation or some teaching over God's word. They'll claim that, like the Mormons say, we believe the Bible. But we also have the Book of Mormon, we have the Doctrine and Covenants, we have Pearl of Great Price and they add these man-made teachings alongside the Bible. Or you have Jehovah's Witnesses who say that it is the watchtower, that is the voice of God, it is the watchtower alone that can interpret Scripture. In fact, charles Taze Russell said to the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses that the study of the Bible alone will lead you into darkness. But if you have the watchtower magazine, it will lead you into darkness.
Speaker 2:But if you have the Watchtower magazine, it will lead you to truth, dr the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses now even have their own translation of the Bible, dr, and we're going to be talking about that in a few…. Dr, which is basically just a revision of verses that they disagree with. Dr. Yeah, dr, but they all have some sort of extra-biblical writings, dr.
Speaker 3:They all have extra-biblical writings or some man-made teaching through which they interpret Scripture, dr Okay, and they end up denying the central doctrines. They deny the Trinity, they deny the deity of Jesus Christ. They will deny the blood atonement as the finished work of Christ for our salvation. They will all deny salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ and they will seek to enslave people into a salvation through their man-made system and organization.
Speaker 2:Dr. Okay, so basically now, you have identified three characteristics of cults. One is that they teach a false Jesus. Second, they usually have some sort of extra-biblical writings that they consider to be equal to or superior to the Bible. And number three, they all teach work salvation, dr.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Dr, you've got to earn your way to Heaven, dr Yep, and they will all teach that unless you're part of their organization, working for their organization, a member of their organization, you'll never make it to.
Speaker 2:Heaven Dr. I have a wonderful friend in Lexington, kentucky, named Jean Eason, and Jean was born and raised in the Jehovah's Witnesses, like a third generation Jehovah's Witness, and she was, like three years in a row, the number one salesman of the Watchtower in the United States. Three years in a row. That's quite a phenomenal accomplishment. And even then she was told you've got to sell more if you're going to be saved. And she finally decided there's something wrong here someplace and she started investigating the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses and finally came to accept Jesus as her Lord and Savior.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we're seeing hundreds of people come out of the cults Jehovah's Witnesses, mormons and they all say the same thing when they come out, it's like the chains come falling off. When they discover the real Jesus and the real gospel, it sets them free.
Speaker 2:Any other characteristic of the cults.
Speaker 3:Dr. Well, they tend to have a very authoritarian structure where everything is controlled from the central organization. Some Mormon missionaries recently told me a joke going around the Mormon church. They said you know the difference between a Mormon church and a Christian church? And they said a Christian church has a cross on it. A Mormon church has a satellite dish. And the Mormon missionaries who said this to me what they were saying was everything comes by satellite from Salt Lake City and everything is controlled from a central organization, whether it be the Watchtower in Brooklyn or the Salt Lake Church of Mormonism, and so they have to submit this centralized authority rather than going to God's Word and, by the Holy Spirit, learning what God has revealed to us.
Speaker 2:Well, there you have it, folks, a number of characteristics of the cults False Jesus, teaching of false Jesus. Number two extra biblical materials that are equal to or greater than the Bible. Number three, work salvation. And number four, a very highly structured authoritarian structure that puts a light. It's almost totalitarian in nature in terms of limitation of freedom. Well, dr Carlson, let's start off this segment of our program by you telling us a little bit about your background. You know where did you come from? How did you get called in the ministry? How did you get interested in this cult?
Speaker 3:Dr. Yeah, I grew up in Southern California. We won't hold that against you, dr.
Speaker 2:Land of fruit nuts, as they say. Yeah, I grew up in.
Speaker 3:Southern California. We won't hold that against you. Land of fruit nuts, as they say. As I grew up, my dad always taught me to be a skeptic and to question everything. And so as I went through, but wasn't your dad a minister? He was a pastor for 55 years in California.
Speaker 2:And he still taught you to question everything.
Speaker 3:Well, he wanted us to understand why we believe what we believe.
Speaker 3:He wanted you to have your own faith and not just a handed-down faith. And so I ended up going to six different universities, taking every course I could find that would contradict Christianity, because I figured if there was anything that could destroy Christianity it wasn't worth following. And I went full circle, philosophically, religiously, scientifically, came to the realization that what I was taught as a child was the truth, not simply because I learned in Sunday school, but as I tell people, I'm a Christian because philosophically it's the only consistent, coherent philosophy of life. Every other religion, every other philosophy breaks down at some point, except biblical Christianity.
Speaker 3:But also it's historically verifiable in the person of Jesus Christ, his life, his death, his resurrection. You know, Christianity is not a leap in the person of Jesus Christ, his life, his death, his resurrection. You know Christianity is not a leap in the dark, hoping something's out there. But Christianity is based upon real historical evidence. Right, but also I'm a Christian because, scientifically, all the scientific evidence today shows that we in fact are a unique creation of God. We are not accidents, evolved out of evolution.
Speaker 3:And I'm a Christian because Jesus Christ said he could come and live in my life and he has done that, and over the last 30 years it's been my privilege to teach in over 79 countries of the world. Now People say find a need and fill it. And back in the 1970s, as the cults were exploding, dr Walter Martin, who was a real pioneer of cult ministries, had a real influence on my life, mentored me for many years in the cults. And God has given us a very unique ministry around the world training and equipping churches and national pastors how to deal with the non-Christian cults. You know what happens on the mission field, for example, is you know, as Christians we've gone and done evangelism, we've planted churches, but then the cults come in and they prey on the new Christians who have not been grounded in the Word of God and are easily led astray by the counterfeit. And so God has given us a very specialized ministry in helping to equip churches here in America and around the world.
Speaker 2:Okay so you hold meetings at churches, you hold conferences, you write, you record audio programs. All of these about the cults, eastern religions and also about the field of evolution versus creation. Right we?
Speaker 3:do lecturing every week in churches, holding seminars on non-Christian cults and evolution, creation, world religions, and it's one of the most exciting things because Christians discover, hey, we do have answers for our faith. You know that the cults are the mission field at our front doorstep.
Speaker 2:Well, you're performing a very vital service, and it reminds me of a quote of Walter Martin's. Walter Martin was your mentor. I never got the opportunity to meet him before he died, but he was also one of my heroes when I was growing up in the faith, and I remember Walter Martin once saying that the average Jehovah's Witness can take the average Christian and tie them into a theological pretzel in two minutes flat, because the average Christian does not know why he believes what he believes. Right, dr?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and sadly this is what is happening today. Oftentimes our churches are mile wide and an inch thin, where people have not equipped themselves to understand what does God's Word say, and they're easily led astray by the counterfeit. And that's why, over and over, we're admonished in Scripture to test all things by God's Word, hold fast to that which is true and good. Jude 3, he tells us that we're to contend earnestly for the faith delivered once for all time.
Speaker 2:How can we get in touch with your ministry? How can the viewers get you?
Speaker 3:The easiest way is through our website, just roncarlsoncom. Okay, and we have a tremendous amount of resources, CDs, videos, books on equipping Christians to have answers for their faith.
Speaker 2:Well, I encourage you to get in touch with Dr Carlson's website You'll see the address there on the screen and get on his mailing list and become acquainted with his marvelous resources there. Dr Carlson, what is it that deceives people the most about cults?
Speaker 3:You know, dave, probably the thing that deceives more people about the cults than anything else is that the cults will all use Christian terminology and they will sound very Christian. But what your viewers need to understand is, in dealing with the cults, is that number one? The cults have redefined the terminology. You can ask, as I said, a Jehovah's Witness do you believe in Jesus Christ? And they'll say absolutely yes, but they say that Jesus Christ is an Archangel Michael, the first creation of God. You can ask a follower of Mary Baker Eddy in Christian Science do you believe in the Trinity? And they'll say absolutely. But Christian Science defines the Trinity as three ethical principles life, truth and love. You see, they'll use Christian words.
Speaker 3:I saw Shirley MacLaine being interviewed about the New Age movement on television recently and somebody asked her is she a Christian and believe in Jesus Christ? And she said well, we're all Jesus Christ. She said we all have the cosmic Christ consciousness within us. Jesus just perfected it better than anyone else. And she said just as Jesus evolved to godhood, so we can become gods ourself.
Speaker 3:And somebody in the audience who wanted to clarify what they meant. They said yes, but do you believe in being born again? And Shirley MacLaine smiled and said of course we're all born again over and over and over through cyclic rebirth of reincarnation. So the cults will all use Christian terms and a lot of Christians will hear the Christian words and think, well, they're Christian. And they don't realize the cults have redefined the terms to fit their man-made theology and teaching. So I tell people, number one you have to define your terms. What do you mean when you talk about God? What do you mean when you talk about Jesus Christ? What do you mean when you talk about God? What do you mean when you talk about Jesus Christ? What do you mean when you talk about salvation? Because the cults will use Christian words but redefine the words to fit their man-made theology.
Speaker 2:Dr, one time I was speaking on the cults at the university in Denton, denton, texas, north Texas State University, and I mentioned that the Unity Church was a cult and after it was over, two young girls came up and they were enraged. They said we're members of the Unity Church and we're just enraged. You would call it a cult and that's outlandish. And I said well, let me ask you a question. Does your preacher preach from the Bible? Does he preach Scripture? Well, not very often, I said. Does he talk about Jesus? Well, not very often. In fact, we went to him recently and we said we want a good biblical sermon and he gave us one last Sunday. And she pulls his envelope out and there's the notes on the back. I said what was it about? It was about why Jesus believed in reincarnation. I said oh, that's very interesting. What Scripture? Well, here it is, right here, and she had it written down. He said you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven unless you be born again. See, jesus believed in reincarnation.
Speaker 3:Dr Yep, I was recently at their headquarters of Unity in Leasum, missouri, and I bought their metaphysical dictionary of terms. And you look up, for example, in the Unity School of Christianity, their metaphysical dictionary, the word atonement, which refers to the blood sacrifice of Christ. Well, in Unity's dictionary they say atonement and they hyphenate it at-one-ment, and they say atonement is at-one-ment with the impersonal universe of Hinduism. Oh boy, oh boy. And so again they're using Christian words to make you think they're Christian, but then they redefine the words to fit their man-made theology, dr Carlson has there ever been in history an example of a cult evolving into or becoming a mainline Christian group?
Speaker 3:Well, we have seen one recently the Worldwide Church of God. That was founded by Herbert W Armstrong. When Armstrong died and his son, garner, ted Armstrong, had been kicked out of the church for immorality. The organization was taken over by a group of individuals in Pasadena, california, who have recently moved it to a biblical position and, as a result, they've lost over half of their members, who still follow Armstrong's teachings. But those who control the Plain Truth magazine today are people who have returned to a biblical, evangelical position.
Speaker 2:Dr. Yes, they renounced the unbiblical view of the Holy Spirit that they had. They also renounced Anglo-Israelism, the idea that we are the true Jews, and all that, and it's really amazing. So today, if somebody says they're a member of the Worldwide Church of God, you've got to ask which one, because there's still all the splinter groups that still hold to the old cultic viewpoints right Dr.
Speaker 3:But you know, God's still in the business of doing miracles and God's still able to transform people's lives, Even those who are in the cults, as they study the Word of God, they come to realize that the truth is in God's Word. It's not in some man or some man-made teaching, but to test all things by God's Word.
Speaker 2:Dr, we have about two minutes and during that two minutes, I'd like for you to do this Tell us how is the best way that Christians can protect themselves against being deceived by the cults, dr.
Speaker 3:Well, the best way is to first of all get in the Word of God and to equip yourselves to have answers for your faith. You know God has given this as his love letter. It's given us his guidebook and how to live, and I would encourage Christians to begin by reading the Gospel of John. Find out who Jesus Christ is and understand that Jesus Christ is the eternal God who came in human flesh and that when Jesus Christ died on that cross, he was not simply a man dying for another man.
Speaker 3:If you read Hebrews chapter 7, 8, 9, and 10, hebrews says that Christ was God come in human flesh. He was the eternal lamb of God. He was the infinite sacrifice who shed his blood once for all time. Hebrews 10.10 says so that we can come by faith and receive the gift of forgiveness, the gift of salvation, and that's what the gospel is. The gospel is good news to people enslaved in cults and false religions, because the gospel Jesus says is a gift. It's a gift that was bought and paid for by Jesus Christ, who was the infinite sacrifice for an infinite amount of sin, dr. So we need to Dr.
Speaker 2:And that we can come and receive that gift by faith, Dr Right, so we need to get in the Word, we need to stay in the Word if we are going and we need to test everything. I mean, there may be a person who gets up and 90% of what he says is right out of the Bible, but the other 10% is totally off the wall and we need to learn how to test. And you know, Ron, the thing that's frustrating to me is the average Christian knows so little about the Bible they don't have to test anything. We've got to get in the Word and stay in the Word.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and this is why your ministry is so wonderful of teaching every week on television, why we provide resources through our ministry, because Jesus said in the last days, matthew 24,. He said there's going to come many false Christs and false prophets who are going to seek to lead even the elect astray. And if there are coming false Christs and false prophets, we better understand who the real Jesus Christ is and who the real gospel is, so that we will not be led astray by the counterfeits.
Speaker 2:What would you say to any viewer who is caught up in one of these cultic groups that we've been talking about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for your viewers. I would say we got good news for you, and the good news is that God, who loves you, has personally revealed Himself to us in Jesus Christ, that God broke into human history he split history into BC and AD and that God has personally revealed himself to us in Jesus Christ. And one of the things that grieves me and breaks my heart is that many people get caught up in man-made organizations and man-made cults that are following after some man rather than God's word. And if you are involved in some organization that's following a man or an organization, I'd encourage you. God has given us his Bible as his love letter to you and he wants you to know him personally in a personal relationship. And the good news is you don't have to work for it. You can't earn it. You can't buy it. Going door to door selling magazines isn't going to give you salvation. It's a gift that was bought and paid for completely by Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Is the Mormon Church a legitimate expression of Christianity or is it a classic cult, and what is it about the Mormon religion that causes this question to be asked For the viewpoint of one of Christendom's most renowned cult experts? Stay tuned. We're going to turn our attention to a specific cult, namely the Mormons. They are the world's largest and most successful cult, dr Carlson. Why is it? Do you believe that the Mormons, they are the world's largest and most successful cult, dr Carlson? Why is it? Do you believe that the Mormons have been so successful?
Speaker 3:Dr. Well, today they've been able to hide the true history and background of the Mormon Church. They've been able to cover up to the American public the true teaching of what Mormons actually teach and believe and they have presented this family image that we're just a nice family organization, a family church of moral values. What they do not tell you is that the founder, joseph Smith, had 43 wives. Brigham Young, the second president, had 57 wives, 186 children. I mean, the founders were absolutely corrupt in family life and the Mormon Church today is spending millions of dollars on public relations trying to whitewash and cover up this absolutely corrupt history of the Mormon family and present this today family image to the American public so that you do not examine the true teachings of Mormonism. They don't want you to know the real history of how Mormonism began.
Speaker 2:I must say they're very effective at that because their television commercials that they run are very, very effective.
Speaker 3:They have some tremendous PR people who have discovered that they can use the public advertisements free and have taken advantage of that to preach Mormonism. But what your viewers have to understand is that Mormonism, which calls themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is not the Church of Jesus Christ, that it in fact is a false religion.
Speaker 2:They literally have tens of thousands, in fact hundreds of thousands of people out knocking doors, which you don't find Christians doing.
Speaker 3:Well, this is for them many of them a requirement, because Mormons teach that they are striving to become gods themselves, and so young men and women go out on a two-year mission. There are about 58,000 Mormon missionaries around the world today seeking to achieve godhood, and this is one of the doctrines that they don't want you to know about the whole teaching of exaltation and godhood.
Speaker 2:But that knocking on the doors must be effective in terms of reaching out and drawing people into the church.
Speaker 3:Well, they're able to reach many people who have not been grounded in the word of God. Yes, and people say, well, they have such a zeal for what they're doing, they seem so committed, and I am reminded of Paul in Romans, chapter 10, where he says I pray for their salvation, because they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge, for they are seeking a righteousness of their own apart from Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Now, when you talk to Mormons, when those two young men come by and knock on your door and boy, they're clean, cut and very enthusiastic and all, and you invite them in and start talking to them. They sound so Christian, they talk about Jesus, they talk about salvation, they talk about the Bible. What is it that specifically makes the Mormons a cult?
Speaker 3:The cults and the Mormons specifically, will use Christian terminology to make the average person think they're a Christian organization, but they have redefined the terms to fit their man-made theology. Mormons teach, for example, that God is a finite man of flesh and bone who is married up in heaven to multiple wives and that we are all sexual offspring of mother and father. God and Mormons teach polygamy or polytheism. They believe there are literally millions of gods and every male Mormon believes that he can become a god himself. Mormons teach that Jesus Christ is the literal brother of Lucifer or Satan. Mormons hate the cross and blood of Jesus Christ. You will never see a cross in a Mormon church. You'll never see a cross in a Mormon temple. In fact, mormons dislike the blood of Christ so much that when they take communion they use water instead of grape juice or wine, because they want no representation of the blood. They say it's foolishness.
Speaker 2:Is that right, and so are they rejecting the atonement of Christ.
Speaker 3:Well, we were missionaries in the Philippine Islands and back in 1984 the Mormons opened their new temple and they had a grand opening for two weeks and I was there passing out tracts and the head of the Mormon temple came out. He was an American, about 60 years old, and I asked him. I said, sir, where is the cross? There's no cross in Mormonism. Without the cross there's no salvation. And that Mormon leader looked at me and he said the cross is foolishness. The cross is foolishness.
Speaker 2:That's what the Bible says. It's foolishness to the world.
Speaker 3:Well, I had in my pocket my New Testament. I pulled out and I turned to 1 Corinthians 1.18 and I said would you read this? First Corinthians 1.18, it says for the word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness. And I looked at that man with all the love and compassion I had and I said, sir, the Bible says you're perishing. The word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved, it is the very power of God unto salvation. And that's why I weep and cry for Mormons as people, because they have been led astray by a false prophet, by a false church, and are preaching a false gospel.
Speaker 2:Well, those door-to-door missionaries have been trained well and they know what's going to turn you on and what's going to turn you off, and they're going to come in and talk about Jesus. They're not going to come in and talk about. Let me tell you about the real Jesus, who is the brother of Lucifer, one of 2,000 gods created by the super God Adam, and that you can become a God equal to him if you work hard enough. Dr Right, they're not going to tell you that.
Speaker 3:Dr. No, and I often describe what Mormons do when they come to your front door. It's like if you were to take a mayonnaise jar out of the refrigerator, get a spatula and clean out all the mayonnaise and then go get some wallpaper paste, fill it back up with wallpaper paste, screw the lid back on, put it in your refrigerator. You know, dave, the next time somebody goes to make a sandwich, they're going to pull out the mayonnaise jar and it says mayonnaise right on the label, it looks like mayonnaise.
Speaker 3:It looks like mayonnaise, but if you taste the content of it you're going to choke. And sadly, what Mormons have done is they have taken Christian words and Christian symbols. They have emptied them of all their theological content. They then replace it with a pagan, man-made theology and they cover it over with Christian words so that to the public it looks like Christianity. It says Christianity right on the label. We're the Church of Jesus Christ, but if you taste the content of it you're going to choke for eternity.
Speaker 3:Mormonism is not Christian. It is teaching a false God, a false Christ. They teach that God is a man with a body of flesh and bone, that God is simply a man who has evolved to become a god and that he's a finite man. The God that Mormons worship, dave, is not infinite, he is not eternal. They believe that God is a finite man who has God only over planet Earth, because Mormons believe there are millions of other gods scattered throughout the universe, populating their own planets in the galaxies with their mother gods, and every male Mormon believes that he can become a god himself, in fact they teach what is, I guess, the oldest heresy in the Bible, the one that Satan whispered in the ear of Eve that you can become like God.
Speaker 3:I recently had three Mormon missionaries in my home and we were talking and I said to them I said do you know the doctrine that you can become a God is in the Bible. And they said it is. I said yeah, it's in the Bible. And we turned to Genesis, chapter three, verses four and five, and there it says the serpent said to Adam and Eve I eat of the fruit. You can become God yourself. And sadly, the same lie that God, adam and Eve, eve, cast out of the Garden of Eden is the same lie that is going to keep Mormons out of Heaven and this is why they are the mission field at our front doorstep and we need to weep and we need to cry for friends and neighbors who are Mormons because they have been led astray by a false prophet.
Speaker 2:One of the things that people often hear about the Mormon Church is that they are often involved in genealogical research to find relatives that they didn't know about so that they could be baptized for them, because they believe in baptism for the dead. Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Dr Right. Mormons built temples and there are now 100 temples around the world and they build them in order to do secret rituals called their endowments or ordinances, and probably 90 percent of what takes place in a Mormon temple is what is called baptisms for the dead, where Mormons believe that they can save the dead people in the graves by being baptized for them and earning their salvation by proxy into the Mormon heaven. Jesus is not going to save them. They believe that they become the saviors of the dead people and this is why the Mormons spend millions of dollars keeping their genealogies so that they might be the saviors of the dead people.
Speaker 2:Quite often when you begin to dissect the cults and criticize them, they will respond as the Mormons often do and as Masons often do. They start talking about, well, our organization. So much of it is secret. We have all these secret things and nobody really knows these and nobody understands them. And you could never really understand Mormonism unless you are into all the secrets. Is there really that much secret about Mormonism?
Speaker 3:Dr. Not any longer. You know, we have seen literally thousands of people come out of Mormonism and find Christ former leaders of Mormonism and they have revealed the inner workings of what goes on in the temple, what goes on in their teachings. And so today there's no excuse for anyone. They claim that those secret rituals that take place in the Mormon temple, those secret rituals Joseph Smith the founder stole verbatim, word for word, right out of Freemasonry and Masonic Lodge and most Mormons aren't even aware of this. And they go through a series of rituals, very much like in Freemasonry, of secret handshakes, secret passwords, believing that this will gain them entrance into Heaven.
Speaker 2:You know, it just occurred to me that the co-author of your great book here called Fast Facts on False Teachings is Ed Decker. Now it just occurred to me that the co-author of your great book here called Fast Facts on False Teachings is Ed Decker, and Ed was a real high muckety-muck in the Mormon church.
Speaker 3:He was a leader of the Mormon church, involved in leadership for 25 years, was married in the Mormon temple. His five kids went on Mormon missions, so God saved him out of Mormonism.
Speaker 2:So if anybody knows the secrets of the Mormon church, he knows them.
Speaker 3:And we have seen literally tens of thousands of Mormons come out of Mormonism. One of the great things is that Mormonism today in America is almost at zero growth. I didn't know that I didn't know that Last year, 100 percent of their growth took place outside the United States, largely in Roman Catholic countries half of it in the Philippines, half of it in South America, because people in America are becoming aware that they teach a false god.
Speaker 3:they teach a Christ who is not the Christ of the Bible. They're teaching a false salvation and Mormons are very reachable with the gospel, but what they need is good information why they should come out, and this is one of the reasons Ed and I wrote this book to give them the information how they can know the real Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Tell us about the origin of the Mormons. I understand they emerged in upstate New York in about 1820, that area. But tell us something about the origins.
Speaker 3:Joseph Smith was the founder of Mormonism. As a teenage boy he said he went out into the woods to pray for the first time in his life. And he says he received a revelation from a messenger of light. And this is found in one of their books called the Pearl of Great Price, in the book Joseph Smith, Chapter 2. And Joseph Smith said that this messenger of light told him that all the Christian churches were wrong, that all the teachings of Christianity were an abomination and that he could be a prophet of God himself. And what we find is that this angel of light told him that very near his, in Palmyra, new York, where some golden plates and as a teenager he said he went on dug up these golden plates and there were written Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics.
Speaker 2:And written in perfect King James English right Well he says.
Speaker 3:He then put magic seer stones that he had used for divine hidden treasure. He put them into a top hat, he says. He put his face into the top hat, looked through the magic stones and translated the supposed Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics into the Book of Mormon. Well, what's so interesting about it is much of the Book of Mormon is taken verbatim, word for word, as you say, right out of the King James Bible. And people say well, what's so interesting about that? Well, mormons claim Joseph Smith was an ignorant farm boy. You know what was he doing? Translating this supposed Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics into perfect King James English in the 19th century. And David. It becomes even more interesting when you understand the Book of Mormon was supposedly written down 1,000 years before King James English ever came to existence.
Speaker 3:And Mormons claim that this Book of Mormon that they want you to read is actually a real history of North and South America. And in the Book of Mormon they claim that the American Indians are the lost tribes of Israel, that the American Indians are Jews who floated across the Atlantic on ships like the Contiki raft and settled here in the Western Hemisphere. Now they have real problems because I have challenged Mormons. And if there are any Mormons listening to this? Mormons claim that this is a real history of North and South America, describing the Indian civilizations, the Nephites and the Lamanites, describing their cities and civilizations. And I have told Mormons for 30 years that if you can show me a map of anything found in the Book of Mormon, I'll become a Mormon. And you should see when I tell Mormon missionaries that they get so excited they go running back to their bishop hey, carlson's going to become a Mormon. Most of these young Mormon missionaries don't even realize there's no map.
Speaker 3:And yet they want you to believe it's the inspired. Word of God.
Speaker 2:Dr. Is there any historical or archaeological evidence that has been found thus far to substantiate the histories in this book?
Speaker 3:Yeah, not at all. In fact, the Book of Mormon has proven to be a historical, archaeological and geographical fraud. The Mormon Church refuses to produce a map of anything found in the Book of Mormon because there is no evidence. And yet they want you to believe it's a true history of North and South America.
Speaker 2:And what a contrast to the Bible, where every time they turn over a spate of dirt in Israel, they're finding evidence that the Bible is true history.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what I tell people. You know, if the Bible is the inspired Word of God, we would expect it to be historically, archaeologically and geographically accurate. I spent a year studying archaeology and history at Jerusalem University College in Israel, and the Bible has proven so historically accurate that Israeli archaeologists now use it to find archaeological sites.
Speaker 2:I often say that archaeologists must be the most frustrated guys on planet earth, because most of them are nonbelievers the vast majority of them and they're trying to prove the Bible wrong. Yet every time they turn over a spade of dirt, there's more evidence that the Bible really is accurate, dr, absolutely.
Speaker 3:You know, and the Bible you know. You can go to Jerusalem, you can go to Bethlehem and Nazareth, the Sea of Galilee, down the Jordan River, it's all there, everything. And yet you come to the Book of Mormon, which is supposedly a much more recent history, which they call another testament of Jesus Christ. We have absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2:Dr. Okay, along that line, I understand that the Mormon Church has recently really been shaken to its foundations by DNA evidence. What is this all about?
Speaker 3:Dr. Yeah, dave, the entire basis for the truth of Mormonism is that the Book of Mormon is a true history, that Israelites floated across the Atlantic turned into the American Indians, and that's the whole basis for the truth of Mormonism. Mormon scholars, their own anthropologists, have recently done DNA testing. They have taken over 5,000 DNA samples from 140 Indian tribes from Alaska to the tip of South America and have come to the conclusion that American Indians have absolutely no relationship with Jews at all they're all from descendants of Mongolia and northern Siberia and that Jews are Semitic and there is no relationship whatsoever.
Speaker 2:Well, isn't that devastating to the Book of Mormon.
Speaker 3:Dr. Well, the entire basis for the truth of Mormonism has absolutely collapsed in the last year. This was written up in Time and Newsweek magazine this evidence. There are videos out on it now and these are Mormon scholars. These are not anti-Mormons. These are Mormon scholars saying there is no validity to what the Mormon church claims about the Book of Mormon.
Speaker 2:Dr Carlson. What should a Christian do when Mormon missionaries knock at the door?
Speaker 3:Well, I have a great love and compassion for Mormons as people and, as I tell people, the argument isn't with Mormons, it's with an organization in Salt Lake which claims to be the voice of God, the true church, but which has proven to be a false prophet preaching a false gospel and a false Christ.
Speaker 3:And I have a great love for Mormons and I share with them the need that they need to go back to the Word of God and test all things by the Word of God and discover that God is not a finite man of flesh and bone. He is the infinite and eternal creator who made us as his creation and that God so loved you that he came into human history. Jesus Christ, folks, is not the brother of Satan, as Mormons claim. He is the eternal lamb of God. God come in human flesh and salvation isn't through joining the Mormon church, it's not by keeping laws and ordinances or doing temple rituals. The true gospel is that we can know the living God, who revealed himself to us in Jesus Christ, when we come and put our faith and trust in him as our Lord and Savior, the real Jesus of the Bible, not of Mormonism.
Speaker 2:Dr Carlson, I have one last question for you, and that is that surely, as this program is broadcast all across the United States and literally around the world by satellite, there must be some Mormons somewhere who are watching this program right now. I'd like for you to look right into that camera in front of you and give a personal word to them.
Speaker 3:Dr. Yeah, I would encourage every Mormon to test the things by God's word. You know, mormons believe that God is a finite man. But God says in Romans, chapter 1, 22 and 23,. He says professing to be wise, people become fools. They've exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God, who does not change, for an image in the form of corruptible man. That is what Mormons have done. They've exchanged the truth of God and followed after a is what Mormons have done. They've exchanged the truth of God and followed after a man.
Speaker 3:Mormons believe in polytheism, that there are millions of gods. Isaiah 44, 6,. God says Before me, I am the first, I am the last. Besides me there is no God. And Mormons believe that they can become gods themselves. But God says in Isaiah 43.10,. He says Before me there was no God formed and there will be none after me. I am the only God. Friend, please understand. There's only one God. You cannot become God. There's only one God and he has revealed Himself to us in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not the brother of Satan, as Mormons claim. Jesus is not a man who's been evolving to become a God. He is from all eternity. God come in human flesh, who came to save you and to offer you a gift of salvation, not through keeping laws and ordinances, but as a gift, through his shed blood on Calvary's cross. I'm Calvary's Cross.
Speaker 2:I have a dear Christian friend in Lexington, Kentucky, who is a former Jehovah's Witness. She once told me, Christians convert pagans, the cults convert Christians. What do you think she meant by that? And why are the Jehovah's Witnesses considered by many cult experts to be the classic cult? Is it due to their doctrines, their organization or their method of operation? Stay tuned, Dr Carlson. What is it about the Jehovah's Witnesses that makes them a cult? Is it their doctrines? Is it their organization? Is it their method of operation? What is it?
Speaker 3:Dr. Yeah, it's all of those things, dave. What you have is an organization that has a centralized government control from Brooklyn, new York, that claims that they alone are the voice of God, the prophet of God on earth. They say everybody else is wrong. They alone are able to interpret Scripture and they end up denying the basic doctrines of biblical Christianity.
Speaker 3:Jehovah's Witnesses when they knock at your front door. They deny the Trinity, they deny the deity of Jesus Christ, they deny the blood atonement as the finished work of Christ for our salvation, they deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, they deny salvation by faith in Christ. And they have created instead a man-made system and organization. That is, as Raymond Franz, one of the leaders for 19 years of the governing board of the Watchtower, who was the third highest in command of the Watchtower Society, has recently come out of the Watchtower and written a book called Crisis of Conscience, in which Raymond Franz, who was the third highest in command of the Watchtower, says that he finally came to realize, after 19 years on their governing board, that this was not a biblical organization, but it was a man-made organization where they would sit around and vote as to what they were going to believe. And he says, I finally had to leave it because it was not of God. It was built upon man-made teaching and not the word of God.
Speaker 3:And sadly, it is built upon the teachings of a man named Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Franklin Rutherford. Charles Taze Russell, the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, was heavily involved in pyramidology and Egyptology and he had concluded that, based upon the dimensions of the Great Pyramid in Giza, egypt, that Christ was going to return, he said in 1874. When that did not occur, he then reworked the dimensions of the Great Pyramid and said that Christ would return in 1914 and would establish his kingdom through the Watchtower. When Christ did not show up in 1914, he then redefined the second coming of Jesus Christ and said that Christ had returned invisibly as a spirit.
Speaker 2:And yet what does the Bible say? He's going to return, visibly Right.
Speaker 3:And because he twisted and perverted the scripture there, he then had to do away with the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. So they deny the bodily resurrection of Christ, teach that he rose as an invisible spirit. And so what you have is a system, an organization built upon man-made teaching, teaching a false gospel. That you must, they say, be a slave of the watchtower One of the saddest things you'll ever see. Be a slave of the watchtower One of the saddest things you'll ever see. You may be aware that they teach only 144,000 people will ever go to heaven. And people say where'd they get that idea? And they got it from Rutherford, who was the second president of the watchtower. When he became president in 1917, he believed that Armageddon was right around the corner. So he began to tell his followers only 144,000 people were going to make it to heaven. So you better join the watchtower.
Speaker 2:They didn't have that many in the watchtower at that time, did they no?
Speaker 3:And what happened is 1935 came. The organization grew larger than 144,000. Then you have theological crashes. So what did he do, as they had been so famous for? He quickly pulled down a new revelation from God and said everyone who became a Jehovah's Witness before 1935 would go to heaven and everyone who became a Jehovah's Witness after 1935 would stay here on earth and live in a paradise. And that is why today, when you talk to most Jehovah's Witnesses, they have absolutely no hope of ever going to heaven, because Rutherford told them so.
Speaker 3:One of the saddest things is when they take communion, the Lord's Supper, in the Kingdom Hall, which is their local meeting center. And once a year when they take the Lord's Supper they'll pass bread and juice and they'll go row by row. And nobody takes it today because they are not part of the 144,000 people who alone are going to Heaven. And so in most Kingdom Halls no one takes Communion because they're not part of the chosen. They are a second class that they are said that they must work for the organization. They call them slaves of the organization so they might earn their salvation by going door to door selling Watchtower magazines, Dr.
Speaker 2:Could you use that word slave? Because my contact with people in Jehovah's Witnesses has convinced me that they are enslaved in a lot of ways. Certainly they are enslaved mentally and emotionally. They practice the idea that if you ever leave the Jehovah's Witnesses you are completely shunned. I mean, your family writes you off as dead. They have nothing to do with you and this is a tremendous control of keeping people in the organization and keeping them in line right.
Speaker 3:There is tremendous fear that you find in the Watchtower organization. People fear leaving because if I leave I'm going to be cut off from my family, from my friends, and I encourage Jehovah's Witnesses. You know you need to test everything by God's Word and realize that the teaching of the watchtower that says there is no Trinity, that Jesus Christ is not God, that this is not what the Bible teaches.
Speaker 2:That this is a man-made idea that is completely contrary to God's Word. Several years ago we had one of the supporters of our ministry wrote and said that he had a daughter who was in the Jehovah's Witnesses and married to a man in the Jehovah's Witnesses and that they were high in the organization at Brooklyn, new York, and that he wanted to pay for them to go on a pilgrimage to Israel with us. And he said I don't think they will, but I'm going to offer to pay for them to go. So he did and they didn't accept it. Except later on, right before we went, they suddenly called and said we've decided to go. So he was astonished, we were astonished and they went with us. And it was interesting.
Speaker 2:Every time we got to a site we would talk about the historical nature of the site, the biblical nature, and we would start to have a song or prayer that would leave.
Speaker 2:They would not sing with us, they would not pray with us, particularly pray with us, because they think we're praying to a false god. Well, we were as kind to them as we could be and had good fellowship. They would not have communion with us or anything Interesting. We get back to the States and we're hardly here two weeks and everybody on that tour received a letter from them and the letter said we enjoyed meeting you, we enjoyed the fellowship, but we want you to know that we are Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore we want nothing to do with you from this point on. Do not call us, do not write us, do not attempt to communicate with us in any way. I don't know if they had been disciplined by the church or what, but isn't that horrible to think you'd be caught up in a religion like that, yeah or what, but isn't that horrible to think you'd be caught up in a religion like that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Raymond Franz, who was on the governing board I mentioned, said that the organization requires 100% conformity of its members, but we are seeing people come out. What Jehovah's Witnesses need is good information. It's one of the reasons why we wrote the book. I recently had two Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door and knock on the door and you go to the heart of the issue. The real issue is the deity of Jesus Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses will tell you that Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael, that he was the first creation made by God, and I find that in dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, I want to go to the heart of the issue and show them who Jesus Christ is, and I do it by using their own translation of the Bible, the New World Translation. And, for your viewers, I might recommend, if you only have 60 seconds with a Jehovah's Witness, let me share with you how I do that. If you turn to Revelation 1.8 and have the Jehovah's Witness read in their own Bible, it says I am Alpha and Omega, says Jehovah God, and you ask them who is Jehovah God, who is Alpha and Omega, and they'll agree with you it's Jehovah God. Go to Revelation 22.13. He says I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. And you ask them who the first and last is, and they'll tell you it's Alpha and Omega, Jehovah God. Then go to Revelation 1, 17 and 18. He says I am the first and the last, and you ask them who that is, and they'll say it's Jehovah God. He says I am the first and last, the living one. And I was dead. And behold, I'm alive forevermore.
Speaker 3:And ask a Jehovah's Witness when did Jehovah God die? These two Jehovah's Witnesses who were in my home, they said, well, we've never seen that verse before Revelation 1, 17 and 18. I said well, isn't this your Bible, published by the Watchtower? They said yes, but we've never seen that verse. And I said, well, when did Jehovah God die? And they finally said to me well, Jesus died. I said, oh, when did Jehovah God die? And they finally said to me well, Jesus died. I said, oh, you mean Jesus is Jehovah God. And they said well, well, well, no. And then they said these words to me. They said Jesus cannot be Jehovah God, Otherwise that would change everything else in the Bible. Of course, yeah. And I said, you know, I thought the same thing, and the truth is that Jehovah's Witnesses need to have the information to see that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, that he is the one who has personally revealed Himself to us and that he rose bodily from the grave and folks, you need more information about how to get to the Bible.
Speaker 2:Do exactly what Dr Carlson just showed you how to talk to these people in a loving way, but a very convincing way. And one way of doing that is with this book called Fast Facts on False Teachings. In fact, the story he just told there is in this book about how to lead them through those verses in the book of Revelation, and I highly recommend this book to you. Let's just pause for a moment and tell you how you can get a copy.
Speaker 3:I would encourage every one of your listeners to get a copy of our book Fast Facts on False Teachings, as I've had the opportunity to lecture now in 79 countries around the world. People have said can't you just put all this information in one simple paperback book that goes to the heart of the issue, not only how to refute the false teachings of the cults and world religions, but how, in a loving way, you can effectively share your faith with friends and neighbors who may be caught up in a variety of false religions and cults. And so we have chapters on Jehovah's Witnesses, mormonism, new Age, on evolution, on atheism, buddhism, hinduism, islam, the occult, many more chapters that go to the heart of the issue and show you not only how to refute the occult, many more chapters that go to the heart of the issue and show you not only how to refute the false teachings but, in a loving way, you can effectively share your faith.
Speaker 2:Dr Carlson in your excellent book that we just took a look at. There in that advertisement you have a chapter entitled the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Nonprofit Organization. But instead of spelling profit P-R-O-F-I-T. In reference to money, you spell it P-R-O-P-H-E-T, the nonprofit. What do you mean by that plain old words?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you need to understand that. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, headquartered in Brooklyn, claims to be the voice of God, the prophet of God, on earth, and they have given literally hundreds of prophecies over the years that have never come true. Back in 1874, they had prophesied the return of Christ visibly to this earth. When that did not occur, they prophesied 1884. When that did not occur, charles Taze Russell prophesied 1914, would see the visible return of Christ to this earth. When that did not occur, he died, having been proven to be a false prophet.
Speaker 3:Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who became the next president. He prophesied that the patriarchs Abraham, isaac and Jacob were going to return in 1925 and help rule the theocratic kingdom on earth. He built a large mansion in San Diego overlooking the Pacific Ocean, which he later moved into. When they didn't show up, he moved into it. He lived through the Great Depression in this mansion through the 1930s. He died, proven to be a false prophet, nathan Homer Knorr, who then became president. He resisted for many years but in 1966, he began to prophesy through the Watchtower and Awake magazine that the year 1975 would be the end of the age. Armageddon would occur. And for 10 years they prophesied that 1975 would be the end of the age. Well, 1975 came and went, armageddon did not occur and, according to their own statistics, over one million Jehovah's Witnesses left the Watchtower in 1976.
Speaker 2:I did not know that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Deeply disillusioned with an organization which claims to be the voice of God, the prophet of God on earth, and yet again had been proven to be a false prophet. Bill Setnar, who for 25 years was an associate editor of the Watchtower magazine, has come out of the Watchtower and become a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, and when he came out with him he brought out close to 1,200 prophecies that never came true published in the Watchtower. And he said after 1,200 false prophecies, I finally had to admit to myself what am I doing, getting my theology from a false prophet? And so the Watchtower is a false prophet, teaching a false doctrine and enslaving millions of people into a man-made system and organization teaching a false gospel. And that's why I personally weep and cry for Jehovah's Witnesses. They are the mission field at our front doorstep.
Speaker 2:How do you explain the fact that, when Mormons are confronted with the fact that there is no archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon and that DNA evidence disproves their book, and when Jehovah's Witnesses are confronted with the fact that prophecy after prophecy after prophecy after prophecy has been false, that they remain faithful and loyal? What is it about?
Speaker 3:There is in the cults, this cultic indoctrination where when you talk to a Jehovah's Witness, the bottom line really becomes it doesn't matter what the Bible says, it doesn't matter what God says, it's what the watchtower says. And they are indoctrinated that the watchtower is the voice of God on earth. So it doesn't matter what the Bible says, it's what the watchtower says. And it's this that has to be broken through and you need to be praying for your Jehovah's Witness neighbors that God would open up an opportunity to share, for example, those three verses in Revelation and how you, in loving way, can share the good news. Because we're seeing hundreds of Jehovah's Witnesses come out and they all say the same thing when they come out of the organization, they say it's like the chains come falling off them. When they come to know Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah, come in human flesh, who died as the eternal Lamb of God, the infinite sacrifice, who rose bodily from the grave, he's a living Savior and we all have the hope of eternal.
Speaker 2:Heaven, dr Carlson. The Jehovah's Witnesses have their own translation of the Bible. I think it's called the New World Translation. Who made this translation and what is unique about it?
Speaker 3:Dr. Yeah, dave, I have a copy here of the New World Translation published by the Watchtower, and this was done by five men who they claim were scholars, who did their own translation of the Bible. Well, come to find out. The five men who did the translation never studied Greek or Hebrew in their life. They wouldn't know an alpha from an iota if it bit them tomorrow. Come to find out that of the five men who did this translation, only three had finished high school. Of those, only one went on to college. His name was Frederick Franz, the fourth president. He dropped out of college after one semester, in 1913, because Russell told him Christ was returning in 1914. But as you read this, you discover that they developed this translation as a conscious attempt to twist and pervert certain texts of Scripture to make it fit their man-made theology.
Speaker 2:So they just paraphrased the verses they didn't like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for example, in John 1.1, as I said earlier, jehovah's Witnesses deny the deity of Jesus Christ. They say that he was simply an Archangel, michael, the first creation. And so you have, for example, john 1 where it says John 1, where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where it says John 1. Where a clear statement that God took on human flesh. Well, obviously, that doesn't fit their theology. So what they did in verse 1 of John is they simply inserted the article A and they say the word was aga. Well, dave, first of all, there's no article in the Greek, and secondly, by inserting the article A, the word was aga they end up with two gods, which makes them polytheists, which they don't want to be either. And so, rather than accepting clearly what God says, they end up twisting and perverting, and you see this all through the Watchtower Bible.
Speaker 2:Despite the strong warning that you better not fool with Scripture.
Speaker 3:Revelation says you are not to add or take away from it, and yet we see the Watchtower has done this, trying to make the Bible fit their man-made ideas, rather than conforming to what God says.
Speaker 2:Dr, what should a Christian do when Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking at the door? I know most just want to get them off the porch as fast as they can and they usually want to sell you the watchtower as an opening to the thing. Should you buy the watchtower? Should you talk to these people? What should you do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, realize that a Jehovah's Witness who knocks at your front door is not there out of any overwhelming love or compassion for you. He's there for one reason he is trying to earn and work for His salvation in this man-made system and organization. According to their own statistics, last year their five million members put in 900 million hours of door-to-door selling of Watchtower magazines around the world, and they are seeking to earn their salvation. They're the world's biggest publisher, aren't they? They publish more literature in six months than all of Christendom does in an entire year. I just got home from Russia and they have recently, right outside Moscow, built the largest printing press in the world to flood the former Soviet Union with Watchtower magazines. So should a Christian invite them in? Well, if they are equipped to do that.
Speaker 3:And one of the things we show you in our book is how to, in a loving way, effectively share your faith from their Bible sharing who Jesus Christ is and how you can know Him in a personal relationship, because these are people who desperately need to hear the good news of Jesus Christ, and how you can know him in a personal relationship, because these are people who desperately need to hear the good news of Jesus Christ and in love.
Speaker 3:We have the opportunity to share with them that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, that when he died on the cross he was not simply a man dying for another man, but he was the eternal lamb of God. He was the infinite sacrifice who shed his blood for an infinite amount of sin, and that is why he offers us a gift of salvation that we can receive by faith in him. And when jehovah's witnesses come to know the real jesus christ, it sets them free. That jesus christ is jehovah, they say it's like the chains come off of them, because now, instead of trying to earn and work by selling watchtower magazines to get god to like them, they discover that God so loved them that he sent Christ, god come in human flesh to die for them as the infinite sacrifice, and it sets us free to serve the true and living God.
Speaker 2:Dr Carlson, I have a question for you that relates to something that I said at the very beginning of the program, and that was that quotation from the lady in Lexington, kentucky, that Christians convert pagans but the cults convert Christians. Do cults really convert Christians?
Speaker 3:Dr. You know this is what I have seen as I have lectured now in 79 countries around the world is as Christians we go and do evangelism. We plant churches overseas and around the world, and it's after we have done the evangelism, dug up the hard soil, planted the seeds of the gospel and planted churches that around the world the cults then come in and pray on the new Christians who have not been grounded in the word of God, who are easily led astray by this counterfeit. And one of our heart's desires and one of the things we do in our ministry is help equip national churches around the world to know how and a loving way to respond to the false cults. I just got home from Cuba and we were down there training this year over 1,000 Cuban pastors from Havana to Santiago, because Jehovah's Witnesses are active throughout Cuba.
Speaker 3:I was in Russia this last summer training national pastors. There is a tremendous need for Christians to know what they believe and why they believe it, so that they can, in a loving way, share with Jehovah's Witnesses. And I would encourage every Christian. The most important thing is you need to know the Word of God, dr. That's right, dr, because Jesus said in the last days there are going to come many false Christs and false prophets who are going to seek to lead many people astray. Dr.
Speaker 2:I was going to say it's more important now than ever before, because the Bible clearly teaches that in the last days there's going to be a time of deception. There's going to be a spirit of deception loosing the world and anyone who thinks they cannot be deceived, they just don't know. I have seen people who I thought really knew the Bible get terribly deceived, dr.
Speaker 3:Yeah and again. The cults will all use Christian words, but we have to understand the cults have redefined the words to fit their man-made theology. You need to know who the real God is, who the real Jesus Christ is revealed in God's Word. You need to stand on the Word of God, not some man-made organization.
Speaker 2:I want you to look into that camera right in front of you and give a personal word to any Jehovah's Witness who may be watching this program.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would encourage you. You need to ask the question that many of your leaders who have now come out are asking why am I getting my theology from a false prophet? What happened in 1975, when the Watchtower prophesied the end of the age and over one million Jehovah's Witnesses left in 1976, deeply disillusioned with an organization which again had been proven to be a false prophet? And I'd encourage you, if you are a Jehovah's Witness, to understand that the Bible teaches very clearly that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God. He's not a man, he's not an archangel, he's not a creation. He is the eternal God who came in human flesh, who died on a cross for your sins and mine so that you could have the forgiveness of sins and be brought back into a personal relationship with the Creator of the universe, who loves you, who made you and who personally revealed Himself to us in Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:The church today has been penetrated by what I call an invisible cult. It is a very influential organization whose beliefs constitute a denial of the gospel, and yet its membership includes elders, deacons and even pastors. What cultic group am I talking about? Stay tuned, we're going to take a look at what I like to call the invisible cult. Dr Carlson, do you have any idea what I'm talking about?
Speaker 3:Dr. Well, I think you're talking about what we call Freemasonry or the Masonic Lodge, and even those who are in the shrine.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Dr, and Freemasonry has infiltrated many of our churches. Many of our members, pastors, elders, have gotten involved in the Masonic Lodge, thinking it's simply a benevolent organization or fraternal organization, and they don't realize that its basic teachings and rituals are contrary to God's word, the Bible.
Speaker 2:Dr, you know you just mentioned something that I come across all the time, and that is that whenever I start talking about masonry and about why I believe that it's not proper for a Christian to be involved in it, I always get the argument that it's simply a fraternal organization, like the Elks, like the Veterans of Foreign Wars, that it does many, many good deeds for the community children's hospitals and so forth and what in the world is wrong with being a member of an organization like that?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, there's nothing wrong with good works, but the problem is the Masonic Lodge claims in its very own writings to be a religion, that every Mason is a minister of this religion. And when you get involved in the Masonic Lodge I mean every Mason who is watching this program knows that in the very first initiation, in order to join what is called the Blue Lodge, every Mason will go through an initiation where he is brought before an altar and he will bow at that altar. Behind that altar stands a man he calls the Worshipful Master of the Lodge. As he's bowing at this altar, he says I'm lost in darkness and I need the light of free masonry. And then every mason is required to take a blood oath of allegiance where he is sworn to secrecy. And every mason will put his thumb to his throat and will swear a blood oath not to reveal the secrets of masonry or he'll have his throat cut from ear to ear.
Speaker 2:Dr Carlson, how in the world could any person who really understands Christianity make a statement that I am in darkness and I need light?
Speaker 3:Well, if you read 1 John 1, it says that if you are a Christian and claim you're in darkness, it says the truth is not in you and you are living a lie. 1 John 1. And then how could any Christian? And this is what disturbs me so deeply is that we have Christian men who join the lodge, they bow at an altar before a man they call the worshipful master. You know, jesus said you cannot serve two masters. And every man out there has to decide are you going to follow the worshipful master of the lodge or follow the only worshipful master, jesus Christ? You cannot serve two masters. And then to take a pagan blood oath, which James, chapter 5 says is an abomination to God, to take a blood oath to have your throat cut from ear to ear, your bowels ripped open.
Speaker 3:That's just the first of many oaths as you go along in your degrees in masonry right and after you go through the first three degrees of what is called the Blue Lodge, masons are then allowed to go into either the Scottish Rite or the York Rite 32nd degrees in the Scottish Rite or 13 in the York Rite, and there they go through a progression of rituals and degree work where they give worship and honor to Egyptian gods, Persian gods, Greek gods, Babylonian gods, and, at its very heart, and you can read, the authorities of Freemasonry. Read Albert Mackey Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, History of Freemasonry. Read Albert Pike, his Morals and Dogma, the authority so authoritative. He's the only man buried in the Masonic Lodge in Washington DC and they will tell you that masonry is a religion and they claim to be the revival of the ancient mystery religions of Babylon and Persia and Egypt.
Speaker 3:And what these Babylonian cults were were fertility cults, Right when they worship the male organ. And this is why, for example, when a mason goes into the lodge, every mason receives this white lambskin apron and they will wear this as a covering, Because when you get into masonry they say that no woman can be a mason and that is because she does not have what they call the generating principle of life, the male organ, and they say that it is through the male organ that man achieves immortality and eternity through his generating his offspring, and all of this is found in their own writings. It is a pagan, non-Christian cult.
Speaker 2:I had a fellow call me in Lexington, kentucky, one time. I was up there to hold a meeting and he said I want to come over to your motel room and talk with you for a few minutes. So I went over there and he said we've been studying the cults in our Sunday school class at a very large church there in Lexington. And he said a few weeks ago the teacher said okay, we've covered the entire book except for one chapter. He said the last chapter is about the Masons and next week we'll talk about the Masons. He said I became enraged because I'm a Mason. I said how dare you call masonry a cult? He said well, I don't know that much about it. So what I'll do is I'll teach what the book says and you teach why you think it is not a cult.
Speaker 2:So he said David, I did something I'd never done before. I didn't pay any attention to it. He said I read the manual and he said when I got to page I think it was 92, he said I got on my knees before God. I asked God to forgive me, I repented of ever being involved in this organization, I took my ring off and beat it to death. And then he said I sent in my resignation. I said well, what in the world was on page 92? He said on page 92, it said and I have this book it said the ultimate goal of all Masons is to spend eternity before the throne of the great. What is it? Architect of the universe, worshiping him hand in hand with Hindus, muslims, confucians, buddhists, and it named every religion in the world.
Speaker 3:In Freemasonry they say that all religions are the same. It doesn't matter which religion you are. And they say Jesus, buddha, confucius, mohammed the name means little. What did Jesus say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am the way.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I am the truth, I am the life. There's no other way but the Father, but by me. Peter said there's no other name under heaven by which you can be saved. How can you profess to be a Christian and turn around and buy that?
Speaker 3:Where I live. I had one of the leaders of the Masonic Lodge in our town. Give me a call. In fact he was the chaplain of the shrine and he said how dare you say that I'm not a Christian? He said I'm an elder in my church, I teach Sunday school in my church and I stopped him and I said, sir, I said if you were to die and stand before God today and he should ask you, why should I let you into my heaven? I said what would you say to him? And there was silence on the phone for about 10 seconds and finally he said to me. He said well, I guess I would have to tell God I was a good Mason.
Speaker 3:Because, you see, freemasonry claims to be a religion of morality that through their own good works and through their own good efforts, they say look at the children's hospitals, look at the burn units, look at the things we support. You know there's nothing wrong with good works, but, friends, good works are not going to save you. Amen. And sadly, masonry is a religion which believes that through their own good works. And all you have to do is go to a Masonic funeral, when a Mason is buried with a white lambskin apron and understand folks.
Speaker 3:Jesus said in Matthew 7.15,. He says beware the false prophets who come to you dressed in sheep's clothing. And every Mason, the first thing he puts on when he goes into the lodge is he puts on the sheep's clothing. Wow, dr. And every mason, the first thing he puts on when he goes into the lodge is that he puts on the sheep's clothing. And God. And Jesus says in Matthew 7, they're going to call me Lord, they're going to preach in my name. They're going to say Lord, didn't we do all these good works in your name?
Speaker 2:And Jesus says in verse 23, I'm going to tell them I never knew you Depart from me, when you get up to a certain level in the Masons, that you're qualified to go into the Shriners, which I guess is really the height of the whole thing. And then you talked about the distinctive headgear that they wear, the fez. And we've seen all these at circuses, at parades. They come down the street on their motorcycles wearing their fez. Tell us, first of all, what is the Shriners and what is the significance of that fez.
Speaker 3:Well, you'll see the men in the Shrine parades and the Shrine circus wearing their red fez. In order to be a Shriner, you have to reach the highest degrees of Freemasonry, either the 32nd degree of the Scottish Rite or the 13th degree of the York Rite, and then you're allowed to go into the Shrine. And sadly, many Christians have gone into this, which is hard to understand because, in order to be a Shriner, in the initiation every Shriner takes a blood oath of allegiance to Allah as his God and Mohammed as his prophet. Now, are you kidding me? No, and in light of 9-11, you've got to wonder how can any Christian take a blood oath of allegiance when God absolutely forbids that in the Ten Commandments?
Speaker 2:And yet they're not even allowed to pray in the name of Jesus at the Lodge, are they no?
Speaker 3:But you swear allegiance that Allah is your God, mohammed is your prophet.
Speaker 3:You are then given this red fez with the Islamic sword and crescent encrusted in jewels on the front of it, and you'll see men wearing this and people say well, why do they wear the red fez? It is because, if you study history, during the 7th and 8th century, as the Muslims swept across North Africa, they came to Fez, morocco, and in Fez, morocco, there was a large community of Christians and Muhammad had ordered the slaughter of all the infidels, meaning Christians who would not bow down to Allah and Muhammad as the prophet, and the Muslims went in with the Islamic sword and there, in Fez, slaughtered thousands of Christians. And then they took their Fez hats and they dipped it in the blood of Christians, glorying in the defeat of Christianity. And that's why the fez's are red, representing the blood of Christians defeated by the Islamic sword, which they have encrusted in jewels on the front. And there are Christians who walk around wearing this hat. And, dave, to be honest, it's an abomination in the eyes of God, oh my.
Speaker 2:Well, folks, I tell you, this is just one of the many stories that you will read in this fascinating book by Dr Carlson. As I said, I couldn't go to bed last night. I just kept reading and reading and reading. One incredible story after another, dr Carlson, we have about two minutes in this segment, and let me just ask you this Most Masons I know of defend their Masonic membership on two grounds. They'll talk, first of all, about good works that we do all these wonderful good works, and they do a lot of good works. And secondly I don't know why it is, but they always do this they say almost every president of the United States has been a Mason and that many presidents couldn't be wrong. So what could be wrong with an organization that the presidents have endorsed?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they often point to George Washington. We have letters from George Washington who says he was never a Mason. In fact it's interesting. For example, ronald Reagan, they claim, was a Mason and yet it wasn't until his presidency that they awarded him an honorary 33rd degree Masonry. So you become an honorary Mason, yeah, honorary Mason. And now they can print oh well, ronald Reagan was a Mason. Ronald Reagan was never a Mason, never had anything to do with the Masonic Lodge, except they chose to give him an honorary.
Speaker 2:But even if every president was a member, what does that prove?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what you have to do is go to their own teachings and look at what do the Masonic authorities say Masonry is? They claim it's a religion, that it is a religion of morality, that they are seeking to earn their salvation through their good works. And as I tell men you know, there's nothing wrong with good works, there's nothing wrong with children's hospitals or burn units. But understand that Shriners who give money to the Shrine Hospitals, they are doing that believing that they can earn their salvation in the celestial lodge above where they say the great architect of the universe lives. And when you go to a Masonic funeral and they're buried with that white lambskin apron, they say there that it is through their purity of their life and morality that they will earn the celestial lodge.
Speaker 2:And how much better would it be to give that same money to Christian churches or Christian hospitals or organizations where the work is being done in the name of Jesus Christ, to give glory to Him.
Speaker 3:Dr, yeah, and you know. Ephesians 2.8.9 says for by grace we are saved, through faith. It is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast Dr.
Speaker 2:Now Dr Carlson. The Masons claim that they can trace their history all the way back to King Solomon. What about that?
Speaker 3:Dr Well, masonry actually began in 1717 AD in England Well that sure doesn't get it back to King Solomon Dr.
Speaker 3:But what they do is they have all these stories and legends in the Masonic Lodge that they say that when King Solomon was building the temple, that Hiram Abiff, his architect, lost the true name of God, and so Masons are now on a search for the true name of God's lost name. How he lost his name is beyond me, but Masons claim that they have discovered the true name of God. And when you get to the seventh degree, the royal arch degree of the Scottish Rite, they say that the true name of God that was lost that all Masons worship is Jobulan. It's written in their ritual books, j-b-o. It is a combination of three deities. They say that the true God is a combination of Jehovah, baal and remember Elijah fighting the prophets of Baal and Osiris, the Egyptian sun god, and they say that that makes up the Trinity. I'll tell you folks, god is not going to share his glory with pagan fertility cults of Baalbeck and with Osiris, the Egyptian sun god.
Speaker 3:And yet this is what they say in the seventh degree is the true name of God that all masons worship. Then, when you get to the 17th degree of the Scottish Rite, you discover that they have a secret password and they whisper this word only in the Masonic Lodge. And only Masons, they say, know the true password that will get them into heaven. And they are given this in the Masonic Lodge. Well, we have seen thousands of Masons come out and I have learned what they all say is a secret password given to them that they will say when they enter eternity. And the secret password in the 17th degree is Abaddon.
Speaker 3:Well, the first time I heard that, I said you know, I've heard that somewhere. Well, yes, in the book of Revelations, chapter 9, it says that the chief demon over the pit of hell, his name in Hebrew, is Abaddon the chief demon over the pit of hell, dr.
Speaker 2:This is just incredible.
Speaker 3:Incredible. Dr and Masons say that is their secret password that will open up eternity to them.
Speaker 2:Dr, Before we began this television program, for almost 23 years I had a radio program across the nation and about once every six months I would do a program about masonry and I would get a flood of mail. Now I expected the mail to be from enraged masons, but it wasn't. Nearly all the mail came from wives of masons and it read like a broken record. They would read like this my husband claims to be a Christian. He goes to church twice a year Easter and Christmas or he goes to church once every six months, or he goes to church once a month, but he never misses a lodge meeting. And I feel like this is a point of separation between the two of us. Because he says it's all secret, hocus pocus. That was the letter I got, over and over and over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and this is what we see that the lodge has become their God. It's become their religion, and when you give many masons the option between Jesus Christ and the lodge, they choose the lodge, dr.
Speaker 2:I saw this happen when I went to a church up in Indiana to preach and I walked in the door and there was a huge chart on the wall and all people were standing around looking at it. So I thought I'd go look at the chart and it was very interesting. They had had a 24-hour prayer chain where the people had signed up 15 minutes each for 24 hours, day and night, to pray for this meeting Boy. I was really blessed by that. And I'm standing there looking at this and this man next to me. I turned to him. I said boy, this is wonderful. He said yeah, it really is. He said you know, I'm one of the elders of this church and I said oh, is that right? Where is your name on there? He said oh well, my name's not on there. I said why? He said well, I had a lodge meeting last night, you know the Masonic Lodge, and so I couldn't give any time to the prayer chain.
Speaker 3:Many masons do not. For some reason they don't even question what they're doing. They go through these pagan rituals, giving worship to every pagan deity and then claiming that I can be a Christian and bow before an altar, before a man. They call the worshipful master and say you're lost in darkness and you need the light of free masonry Folks. This is not Christianity. In fact, it's a pagan cult and we need to warn men. They need to flee it, they need to repent of it and get out of it. And if people will look at the information that we have in the book or get my CD on it, we've had over 100,000 men leave after hearing my lecture on CD on it. Praise God, praise God.
Speaker 3:I was at a church where the whole elder board were Masons. The chairman of the church was the worshipful master of the lodge. The Sunday school superintendent was the supreme potentate of the shrine and they said Pastor, what are we doing having this man speak in our church? They had seen my CD on it. I said check it out for yourself. It's all documented from your own books. They called the lodge together Sunday night. They went through all the documentation. The entire elder board came back on Monday and said Pastor, we want you to know. We all resigned from the lodge last night.
Speaker 3:We could not refute what this man was saying and if Masons will honestly examine what they are involved with, they will realize it is not compatible with Scripture. You cannot be a Mason and be a Christian that choose you to the stay who you will serve. Either you're going to serve Baal or you're going to serve God.
Speaker 2:I am absolutely certain that there must be some Masons who are watching this program, and right now they may be at the boiling point, with steam coming out of their ears. What would you say to them in conclusion?
Speaker 3:Well, I would say that I understand that a lot of Masons do not fully understand what they're involved with. In fact, many of the secrets are hidden from the early initiates. But if you are a Mason, you know that in the very first initiation you bowed at an altar before a man you called the worshipful master. If you are a Christian, you cannot serve two masters Either you're going to serve the lodge or serve Jesus Christ. Masonry claims to be the revival of the ancient mystery religions, a religion of good works. But, friends, salvation isn't through good works. It is through faith alone in Jesus Christ. And if you're seeking to earn the righteousness by Masonic activity, you are following a false religion and you need to flee it. You need to repent of it and discover the freedom that comes in knowing Jesus Christ and serving Him alone.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dr Carlson. You've been a real blessing to us and I want to thank you for being with us and I pray that the Lord will continue to anoint you and magnify your voice to reach millions of people who have been deceived by the cults. And I want to also urge you, the viewers of this program, to pray for Dr Carlson. Put him on your prayer list and begin to pray for him and for his ministry, for him and for his ministry, and also be sure to go to his website, roncarlsoncom, and get on his mailing list and look at the wonderful resources that he has available. This is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb Lion Ministries, saying Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.