Amos 3:7 A Love of The Truth
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Amos 3:7 A Love of The Truth
Unveiling the Spiritual Quests Within Nature Worship and Festivals-with Carl Teichrib
*Many pagans are spiritual seekers who are desperately deceived in a spiritual morass. They are drawn to nature, God's Creation, without knowledge of God's great love and grace expressed to us in His Son-Jesus.
Have you ever wondered where spiritual seekers find community and purpose outside traditional religious structures? Join Jan Markel and her guest, Carl Teichrib, a seasoned researcher of spiritual movements, as we explore the Transformational Events of festivals like Burning Man and Paganicon. These aren't your typical music events; they’re gatherings where souls entwined with broken-hearted spirituality or nature worship come together in search of healing and a higher calling. Carl's insights into these events will spotlight the intricate spiritual quests that captivate attendees and the critical role Christians play in these expanding horizons.
The shifting landscape of spiritual beliefs is not confined to festivals alone; it's penetrating the heart of the Christian religion. We discuss the rise of "Paganistan" in the Twin Cities and a personal narrative of a former Baptist drawn to the embrace of Wicca, painting a picture of the cultural and economic forces reshaping religious identities. The conversation further delves into the stories of those who, feeling alienated by the Church, turn to neo-pagan beliefs. As a Christian community, our engagement in these dialogues about faith must be grounded in respect and understanding, recognizing the diversity of journeys that lead many away from traditional paths.
Wrapping up this thought-provoking episode, we share experiences from the Parliament of the World Religions, highlighting its quest for a unified solution to global issues—a stark contrast to the Christian doctrine of salvation through Christ alone. Carl provides a rare glimpse into the interfaith movement's influence on evangelical youth and the importance of maintaining the integrity of the Gospel message amidst a growing trend of inclusivist ideologies. For those eager to learn more about the role of believers in these transformative times, we offer essential information on connecting with Olive Tree Ministries and the importance of our ministry's work.
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We are going to talk about a prominent spiritual movement today, but it is not what you think.
Speaker 2:So remember, on October the 7th, when Hamas comes into this we all were told a music festival and shoots the place up. I recognize what this was. This wasn't your typical concert. Most folks probably thought it was a concert venue. It's not. It was a transformational festival. Most folks probably thought it was a concert venue. It's not. It was a transformational festival encompassing all of the elements I just have been talking about. So as I'm watching the footage coming out of it, I'm going oh, I know these people, I interact with these people. I feel very comfortable around them because I understand who they are and where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio with Jan Markell. Radio for the Remnant brought to you by Olive Tree Ministries. Today Jan talks to Carl Teichrib about people who are searching for meaning and belonging in all the wrong places. What should you watch for if you suspect friends and loved ones are participating in practices that have eternal consequences? Here is today's programming.
Speaker 2:So asking in 2017, then 2023, why are you attending and how is this transformational? I'm looking to attend because of friends and connection. I want to give and receive joy, fun, meet people, love myself, open my mind, make a sacrifice to the art gods. That's one of the writings on the survey. The one lady beside us in 2017 said to be with my daughter. What is your religious identification? Broken-hearted, 2023.
Speaker 2:How is this transformational? It's a safe place for me to express myself, to be me, without fear. It's beyond my normal routine. It's a place for genuine conversations, Interesting, when I can tackle my social anxiety, restoring my trust in humanity by letting my guard down. It feels like home and we've been told this a number of occasions. This is our church.
Speaker 2:So remember on October the 7th, when Hamas comes into this we all were told a music festival and shoots the place up. I recognize what this was. This wasn't your typical concert. Most folks probably thought it was a concert venue. It's not. It was a transformational festival encompassing all the elements I just have been talking about. So, as I'm watching the footage coming out of it, I'm going. Oh, I know these people. I interact with these people. I feel very comfortable around them because I understand who they are and where they're coming from and I'm willing to have conversations and can have conversations with them. But I recognize this is not just simply a typical music venue. It's exactly what I just described the people looking for some sense of healing and some sense of finding a higher purpose.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the program. Well, I have an unusual hour this week on Understanding the Times Radio. My guest is Carl Teichrib. He's a researcher, writer, conference speaker and, more Interestingly, he attends events that many people would run from, and with good reason, to flee some of them anyway. He attends such things as the Parliament of World Religions that's a frequent destination Paganacon in my hometown, minneapolis All sorts of interfaith events, you might say. He infiltrates them. As an evangelical Christian, he goes undercover to gather information for his messages and his writings. He attends some of the world government meetings around the world.
Speaker 3:So a few weeks ago in suburban Minneapolis, both Carl and I attended a portion or in his case all weekend of Paganacon. What is that? Well, it's a yearly convention of Wiccans, druids, pagans. Why would anybody want to infiltrate into enemy territory? Well, my guest goes to do further research and to learn just what it is these folks are doing and thinking as well.
Speaker 3:I went for a few hours to talk to pagans. Yes, I said to talk to pagans. They have a pagan worldview, and I mean people whose whole lives are spent well. Some of them just worship nature. You and I mean people whose whole lives are spent well. Some of them just worship nature, some behave as druids and even celebrate some of their calling into the world of fairly darkness. I would say I was able to share the hope of eternity with many of them, and my guests will talk about that as well.
Speaker 3:No, nothing dangerous takes place at an event like this. It is certainly spiritually dark, a very spiritually dark place that most of us should stay away from, and I approached several attendees and asked if I could quiz them, stating I represented simply some of the Christian community and media, and they graciously allowed me to quiz them at length and I can report that none of them have the least bit of interest, at least as I spoke to them, in where they might be spending eternity. Some came from a Christian background Protestant, catholic and get into a little bit of that later. So what is Burning man in the Nevada desert? And what was going on in southern Israel October 7th?
Speaker 3:Was it just a music festival? No, it was a lot more than that, and the key word there is transformational. So we hear a lot about the decline of Christianity in the West. What we don't fully understand are the movements coming in trying to replace the truth of the gospel, and these are movements that your friends and family members, co-workers and more are involved in, so I'd like to get into the programming. Carl Teichrib, welcome to the studio.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's good to be with you.
Speaker 3:In all of these gatherings that you attend, you have said in your presentations that they all have a spiritual overtone. I just spent several hours at the event. You were at Paganacon over the weekend. What kind of spiritual overtone. I just spent several hours at the event. You were at Paganacon over the weekend. What kind of spiritual overtone do you sense? Let's just stick to that venue right now.
Speaker 2:It is primarily a religion of nature. It's creation worshiping itself. It's the expression of Romans, chapter 1. It's the expression of Genesis, chapter 3, where we look to become as gods, we look to empower ourselves with wisdom, with knowledge, with illumination. That is the message that we see taking place in Genesis, chapter 3. And this, of course, is now further fleshed out by Paul in Romans, chapter 1, where we worship and serve the creation rather than the creator. And as you read through Romans, chapter 1, you recognize very quickly that there are consequences social, sexual consequences that take place as we engage in a truth exchange. And in many respects, jan, that's exactly what this is. And when you see it at that level, now, all of a sudden, you have something you can work with. We shouldn't be afraid of what's happening around us, because this is literally happening everywhere.
Speaker 3:Everywhere I'm going to emphasize that, it's like 40, 50 locations around just America there's a pagan icon.
Speaker 2:It might be called something else, but same thing there's always something going on, and the worldview is already prevalent in your backyard, it's probably already in your household, it's in your schools, it's in your churches, and that's actually, for me, the more disturbing side of it. But this is simply the reality of that Romans 1 worldview being fully expressed. So when I'm at these events, that's how I'm viewing it I'm viewing it from that perspective. The other side that I come to it in terms of trying to understand this and to keep myself grounded in who is true and in what is true, is to recognize that these are all individuals who Christ has died for and they're made in God's image. So we have to keep that in mind. We have to take them seriously, then.
Speaker 3:I listened to a couple of your presentations happened to be the presentations at the Orlando Prophecy Conference and I'm just going to summarize a portion of what you said only in the interest of saving time. But you've very adequately explained the background of some of this saying going back to the 60s and 70s. Back then they were looking for a new kind of spirituality. Woodstock came along, free love came into the picture, the love for world peace. Psychedelics came into the picture. Obviously the Beatles were driving some of this Postmodernism. Moved to the 1980s came the human potential, humanist psychology, new age blossoms. In the 80s we saw self-actualization, pagan festivals, birth, self-esteem, wicca and witchcraft entered. In the 80s, save the Earth came into focus, big time green politics. So at Paganacon a few weeks ago now, there gathered 500 witches, druids and others that were shamanism, worshiping nature. But this technically goes back and probably before the 60s. But you're saying I think it picked up steam in the 60s, 70s, 80s and now it's coming like a freight train.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and back then we didn't, as a Christian community, take this seriously. This is all fringe, these are wacky ideas, these are marginal people, to our shame. They took the ideas seriously. We didn't, and now, in terms of what we are seeing within the church, we're now emulating some of the very worldview facets that they have brought forward. I had a private conversation where it's kind of like well, you know, they're just a bunch of pagans, a bunch of dirty pagans, and I'm like hold on, they're your neighbors, they're your family.
Speaker 3:Exactly, they're in your family. You may be in your immediate family. You might not know it.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and where the real shame lies is in the fact that our Christian community has stepped away from their first love, has stepped away from the truth of who Jesus Christ is. So it creates now a situation where we will point our fingers to the pagan community, but we ourselves are playing in worldviews and doctrines that we have no right to play in.
Speaker 3:What we attended was a part of Twin Cities Pagan Pride is what they call themselves. And, carl, what I learned I'm not sure how, probably in some of my research for this hour is that the Midwest here in America is pagan central. We've got the Bible built in the South and lo and behold where a lot of my listeners live in the Midwest. It's called Paganistan and the target ground zero seems to be Minneapolis-St Paul. You and I discussed Minneapolis-St Paul. We've got everything, including terrorists, here Not a fun place to be sometimes. But as to how on earth the pagan community targeted the Twin Cities and probably other regional areas here, but you enlightened me that it probably goes back to the Llewellyn Publishing House that came here in the 70s. Talk to me about that for a minute. That's fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the term Paganistan is their term.
Speaker 2:It's the pagan community's own term of endearment to say this is our homeland, this is our landscape, just as you would say Afghanistan or Pakistan, this is Paganistan. And so in the 1960s and 70s, llewellyn Publishing, which was located on the west coast of the US, looked to put a new footprint down. They moved away from the west coast. They wanted to find a city that was cheaper to live, they could expand without some of the limitations certainly better economics and so they looked to the Midwest and they chose Minneapolis-St Paul. What that did was it attracted the North American pagan community to this city.
Speaker 2:And then in the 70s, llewellyn Publishing hosted a number of events called Gnosticons Gnosticism Conference for Gnosticism and they were free events and it actually cost them money. Llewellyn lost money doing this, but it was like a Pied Piper call and all of a sudden the pagan community of America was looking this is the place to be and they came, build it and they will come, and that was indeed the case for your part of the country, and it has simply expanded since. That pagan footprint has certainly grown. This is now realistically probably the largest hub of pagans in America, in the Twin Cities region and then extending beyond that into this land that they affectionately call Paganistan.
Speaker 3:Here's an attendee of one of these events. Happens to be attending the sister event called Pagan Pride Atlanta. Let me play this because she's a former Baptist and she got very led astray.
Speaker 1:The personal journeys that led people to the pagan path reflect a common theme a search for meaning and community. Katie Thackery was curious, read and sought out like-minded people.
Speaker 5:So I was raised Baptist in what they would consider to be like an independent, fundamental, you know, bible-believing Baptist church that's how they purport. And so I had a strong upbringing in spirituality and, you know, learned some basic tenets about faith and how that works and kind of what deity looks like. And I just could not agree with, you know, some of the things that they were teaching. Like there was a lot of cognitive dissonance between an all-loving, all-knowing God that still allows His creation to burn eternally. I could not reconcile that along with some of the other things that they would teach. So I left the church around 17 or 18 and just kind of was like, ok, I'm going to do my own thing and I don't know, like I would still read my Bible and kind of take the principles that I identified with. And I started school. I started at Clayton State University doing a voice performance major and was just kind of talking to one of the girls that I ate lunch with every day and was kind of sharing with her what I thought about divinity. And she was like oh well, your beliefs sound very Wiccan. And I was like what is that? She was like well, it's in this book series that I'm reading. Maybe you should check it out and kind of read up on it.
Speaker 5:So I went, got a book. I went and got a book. I went to I guess it was Books a Million back then and got a book called Wicca for Beginners and read through it and I was like, oh well, this is very interesting and I do identify with a lot of things. And I was terrified reading through it for the first time Because in the church, you know, they teach that anything that's not like their god is demonic. And I was just like terrified that I was going to open some portal to hell or something inadvertently and not know it. But yeah, like reading that book I kind of I could identify with a lot of what was said and kind of the open-mindedness of the author and how she presented the work. I just started reading more and kept on.
Speaker 5:I guess about three years ago I went to Pagan Pride Atlanta. I had been reading a few books on Wicca gosh, probably you know, seven, eight years before that. But I hadn't really like found anyone to teach me and I'm not the best at learning without guidance of some sort. So I was like, well, you know, I'll just go check out Pagan Pride and we'll see. You know what that's about and I started collecting information from the different booths that were there and um. One of those happened to be willow dragonstone community and I think when I showed up to dia and tony's house for the first sabbath it was very much a feeling of coming home you are listening to understanding the times radio jan markel.
Speaker 3:Here in studio with me is carlichrib. You can learn more, Carl, the best place forcingchangeorg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, forcingchangeorg is a repository of my older archives and my Forcing Change magazine, which I published from 2007 to 2015. And there's lots of material there so people can go and glean what that's like.
Speaker 3:They can contact you there. Yes, so Carl is in studio because he and I recently attended the Paganicon event in suburban Minneapolis, which is part of the pagan community. As they celebrate, by the way, they usually do it marking the spring and then fall solstice. Your comment on what you just heard?
Speaker 2:Oh, jan, that sounds. I'm so familiar with that language and with that story. That is so common and this is one of the takeaways that the Christian community needs to understand is that these people, for the most part, are former Lutherans, methodists.
Speaker 3:I agree, that's who I spoke to.
Speaker 2:Baptists, catholics. Pentecostals I have rubbed shoulders with former youth leaders, worship leaders, lots of Sunday school teachers. What happened?
Speaker 2:What happened. They all have a story of hurt and bitterness and pain or confusion that comes out of the church. If we're honest about the growth of the pagan community, a lot of this rests on our shoulders because in the church we have typically shot our wounded. So where do you think the wounded are going to go? They're going to look for answers elsewhere, and over and over again I hear the same stories. I went to my pastor. I had hard questions on faith, hard questions on theology, as you heard in that clip. How can a loving God do this? Those kind of questions, and instead of having the pastor come alongside and saying, hey, let's wrestle through this together, the answers typically have been don't think about it, don't worry about it, just have faith. That jam doesn't cut it, people will start looking elsewhere.
Speaker 2:The other side to this is and I've heard this a lot I would have, as a younger person, a paranormal experience. I would go to my youth leader, I'd go to my pastor and I would say I'm hearing footsteps or I have this encounter, I'm having these dreams, whatever it may be, and instead of being taken seriously, they'll be told don't worry about it, don't think about it, it's just in your head. Wrong answer when do you think people are going to go? So if it wasn't for myself attending these events and I'm fortunate there's a small group, really small group of Christians who will do this and we all pretty much know each other and we can all verify with each other what we are witnessing but if it wasn't for us going to this, we wouldn't realize that this is really a catch, a netting that the Christian community, this is where we lose so many of our people.
Speaker 3:This begs the question then, and you, if I can use the word, infiltrate some of these places, and this time, at Piggy Anaconda, we'll get to Burning man. You go with a team, so, you and your team, you're able to share the hope of Jesus Christ. Probably not so bluntly and blatantly, but how do you convey the truth?
Speaker 2:Sometimes it has been blunt and blatant. It all depends. Every situation is unique, as we have conversations and sometimes it's just a matter of dropping those seeds in. And even before, jen, we were talking before the show began. Everybody wants the harvest. We always talk about the harvest, the harvest. I have a farm background. I grew up on a grain farm. I'm sorry you don't put the combine in the field before you put the planter in the field. We all want the harvest, but we don't want to plant.
Speaker 2:We don't want to sow. And how do we sow? Well, we sow by going to where they are. We sow by giving them the truth, sometimes as small little seeds of truth, sometimes as big conversations. We had both take place during the Paganacon weekend, where our team had small conversations asking those questions Well, where does truth come from? Where do we have moral truth? Having those conversations? Some of those conversations were much bigger, including literally sharing the gospel. Talking about I was part of one conversation I was just on the side of it but I was engaging as well where we were talking about Jesus Christ being the word manifest in John, chapter 1, bouncing it back to Genesis, chapter 1. The person we were talking to had a church background. This wasn't new territory for that individual. But now we're coming to where they are and having those conversations and wrestling with them in a respectful way.
Speaker 3:And some have no faith background, but they have a pagan worldview. They've picked up somewhere and a lot of times I found out in quizzing them it's tied to nature and I didn't realize that. This is the second time. I visited Paganicon only for a short time, about 90 minutes, and you were there the whole weekend and I talked to a lady who had been a witch for 30 years. She wasn't doing anything dark, she was celebrating the moon and things like that, Not doing anything that would be gross or upset my audience greatly. I want to play another quick clip just to help my audience better understand how this came about and this rise of paganism, this neo-paganism, and in this really short clip it says that what caused it to gain so much steam? Obviously the internet, obviously social media.
Speaker 7:This continued into the late 19th and 20th centuries. There was a revival of pagan beliefs, often referred to as neo-paganism. One of the most notable movements within neo-paganism is Wicca, which emerged in the mid-20th century in England. Today, paganism is an umbrella term that includes a vast array of beliefs and practices. While Wicca is well known, there are also Druidry, esatru, hellenism and many other pagan traditions being practiced. Modern paganism often places a strong emphasis on nature and can be very individualistic, with practitioners adapting beliefs and practices to suit their personal spirituality. The internet has allowed for the sharing of pagan beliefs and practices on a global scale. People can now easily research different traditions, connect with like-minded individuals and even participate in virtual rituals and gatherings.
Speaker 7:What do pagans believe in? Say the word pagan and most people imagine witches casting spells, engaging in malevolent rituals or calling on the devil. There's darkness and sorcery, evil and death, but in reality, paganism is really quite benign. Much like most religions, pagans participate in a wide array of spiritual beliefs and practices, often tied to reverence for nature and the worship of ancient gods and goddesses. This can include meditation, divination, such as tarot reading, spellwork and the creation of altars for worship and honoring deities. They also find meaning in pagan symbols, ancient icons that go back thousands of years. These practices are about finding balance, celebrating the cycles of the earth and connecting with a deeper sense of spirituality and community.
Speaker 7:Chapter Two Types of Paganism Today. Chapter 2. Types of Paganism Today. By now, it's clear that paganism is an umbrella term under which exist various paths and traditions. These are reconstructions or revivals of ancient practices, while others are modern interpretations. Here are some types of paganism practiced today 1.
Speaker 7:Wicca A modern pagan witchcraft religion. It's also the most popular. Wiccans often worship a goddess and a horned god, celebrate the cycles of the moon and observe the wheel of the year. 2. Druidry Inspired by the ancient Celtic Druids, modern Druidry focuses on the worship of nature, the ancestors and the ancient gods of the Celtic pantheon. It also emphasizes creativity and the arts.
Speaker 7:3. Asatru or Heathenry, a revival of the ancient Norse and Germanic religions. It focuses on the worship of certain Norse gods. Heathenry emphasizes ancestry, community and values like courage and honor. 4. Hellenism A revival of ancient Greek religion, focusing on the worship of the Greek gods like Zeus, hera and Athena. Hellenism seeks to reconstruct ancient Hellenic practices and beliefs. 5. A revival of ancient Egyptian religion, with the worship of gods such as Isis, osiris and Re. It often involves the reconstruction of ancient Egyptian rituals and beliefs. 6. Shamanism While shamanism is not strictly pagan, many pagans incorporate shamanic practices which involve connecting with spirits, ancestors and other worlds, often through trance and altered states. It's important to note that these paths can be very diverse and individual practices within them can vary widely. Additionally, new traditions and paths continue to emerge.
Speaker 3:Carl Teichrup, you want to expand on what we just heard?
Speaker 2:The clip that you just listened to is accurate in the sense that this is a religion of nature. Now, keep in mind that is actually the terminology that the pagan community uses. They are a religion of nature. That is fundamental to their worldview, and it is diverse. It's extremely diverse.
Speaker 2:One of the takeaways from attending Paganacon and other pagan events has been witnessing the diversity within the movement and how. Now there's really an eclectic individualism. That's a part of this and that came through again at Paganacon, where we're not so much interested anymore in the structures. The Wicca of the 1980s and the 1990s yes, wicca is still the sharp edge of the spear in terms of paganism, but now there's more individual expressions and individuals who are developing their own structures, their own frameworks, how they do ritual and how they do their pagan practices works, how they do ritual and how they do their pagan practices.
Speaker 2:Something else that comes away with all of this and this is something you're not going to get unless you spend time interacting with the pagan community is that they are deeply searching for an authentic history. They don't have one. It's a new movement. They are pulling from the ancient past. They're pulling from Greco-Roman myth. They're pulling from Nordic myth. They're pulling from Nordic myth, they're pulling from Egyptian myth, and so a lot of the workshops you go to are discussions of those myths, as they're now trying to find some authentic history and authentic faith, and they also realize that we don't have that. The Wiccan community, the pagan community, doesn't have a deep historical root, and so the explanation now is however you define it, however you feel, there's so much about feelings, jan. However you feel your pagan experience, however you feel the divinities, you feel your relationship with nature, whatever works for you, that's good for you and becomes postmodernism, and it really is interesting because you're observing a postmodern movement within the pagan community away from structure and authority and an observable framework to something that's more loose and assimilatory.
Speaker 3:I'm quoting you here. You say the world is slowly moving from true spirituality towards a new global spirituality or paganism. This has to be an end time thing, a Bible prophecy type of phenomenon.
Speaker 2:I would say so, I would bring it into the perspective of this is a Genesis 3 reality playing out, and we know that this is also the same reality that plays out at the end. It's really bookends. You're right, it is bookends, yeah, and it's that claim that we will be as God, or have the man of lawlessness claiming that he'll be as God on the throne.
Speaker 3:When I get back, carl, I want to talk to you about the transformational that's the key word, folks transformational event called the Nova Festival in southern Israel. That's where Hamas so brutally interrupted back on October 7th. There's more to that than you think, folks, a lot more, and we'll talk about it. And also, you attended Burning man. We want to talk about that for a few minutes as well. That is the world series of paganism, I think is what's going on at Burning man, which is unbelievable down there. Folks, we'll do that as soon as we get back. Don't go away.
Speaker 4:It's been called a social experiment, post-apocalyptic training, some call it hung. A temporary city emerges in the desert once each year. No status, no government, no currency, a society focused on the individual. One week celebrating humanity, expression and collaboration. A pilgrimage to disconnect, to look inward and to explore the self. No inhibitions, no judgment, no rules. By the end, art and buildings will be burnt to ashes. No trace of them will be left Until next year, where it will be rebuilt again, one by one. They arrive into dust, storms and scorching heat. The city has been constructed and dismantled over 30 times, entirely by its attendees. Attendees, a community eager to reconnect, to explore, to build with their imaginations, can conceive Thousands of strangers. Come as they are and share what makes them unique. This experiment isn't about discovering a supreme being. It's about discovering what's supreme in ourselves A recalibration of the spirit, a reminder to step outside our bubbles, put down our screens and rediscover ourselves. Above the noise To surrender, let go and co-create a world together.
Speaker 3:We'll get to Burning man in just one minute here. Want to make an announcement or two and also get to southern Israel. First, we are just off our Understanding the Times night with Alex Newman, and that would have been April the 11th. You can watch it at no cost on YouTube, rumble and on my website or at markhenryministriescom. Very, very fascinating evening. Great turnout, great online audience. We hope you will check it out. If you'd like a DVD, check out my online store and we offer that for $10 with no shipping, or call my office.
Speaker 3:Also, my guest of the hour, carl Teichrib you can contact him at forcingchangeorg has a book Game of Gods the Temple of man in the Age of Re-Enchantment. Find that on Amazon, and chapter 7 particularly would give you greater insight into exactly what we're talking about this hour Again. Game of Gods the Temple of man in the Age of Re-Enchantment. Carl, I want to go quickly, only in the interest of time. Southern Israel that was a transformational event. You need to explain that why. That is something you recognized immediately, when much of the world had no clue.
Speaker 2:Yes, a transformational event. It will look to somebody who has no experience in this as some type of bizarre new age kind of encounter. It's a festival. It's participatory. It's different than a concert. A concert is you're the audience watching somebody perform. At a transformational event, everybody is part of the experience and when I saw the news clips coming out what happened in Israel at the Nova Festival, I immediately recognized it for what it was. It was a transformational event with roots into an organization that comes out of Brazil. It's a global movement. Transformational festivals, transformational culture, also known as evolutionary culture, is a global phenomenon. There are hundreds and hundreds of these events all around the world and each of them look a little bit different, but they all have shrines and workshops. They all have a sense of searching for spirituality, for community. It's expressive, it's participatory. Music is a big driver, Most often EDM forms of music, electronic dance, music, but I've heard it all and I truly have heard it all at these events. But it is a place where they build their own community.
Speaker 3:They're looking for acceptance from what I've heard you teach. They're looking for healing and purpose. They're looking for a safe place.
Speaker 2:And I've done social surveys at these events and they're very open to tell you this is exactly why we're coming. And so there's a difference from, let's say, paganistan to Burning man and transformational events like the Nova Festival.
Speaker 2:And the difference here is this that the pagan community, paganistan, is capital P paganism. They self-identify as pagans. When you go to these other events they don't identify as pagans. In fact, many of them will not at all see themselves that way. They're spiritual seekers, they're searching. Yes, you have pagans, but you also have atheists. You have a wide variety. It's a mix of secular and mythic all at the same time.
Speaker 3:And there was a Buddha statue there.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's not unusual. You'll see statues of the Buddha, statues of Ganesha. You'll see shrines, little altars and ritual spaces. It's all there. It's an eclectic interfaith mix.
Speaker 3:Anything else my audience should know, particularly about the Nova Festival again, which Southern Israel. This is when Hamas came in on their flying machines folks and I think they killed several hundred of the attendees at the Nova Festival in Southern Israel. They went on to do carnage. Of course that's a few months ago now, unspeakable carnage and I've covered that on air here extensively.
Speaker 2:Right, I think one of the things for people seeing the clips of the Nova Festival. They see the Buddha statue in the background and they're like, oh see, look how pagan.
Speaker 3:Israel is. Look how pagan the Israelis are. Why do you even care?
Speaker 2:Exactly, but that's to our shame. The whole world is like this. This is not unique to Israel, this is not unique to America or my country, canada. This is all over Europe, this is all over Asia. This is the spirit of the age of the world and we tend to forget that, even though Israel, in the Old Testament, would turn their back on their God, their God chose them and would keep them for his purpose. So I look at this and I'm going well, that makes perfect sense, of course. In fact, burning man there is a regional Burning man event that happens in Israel, where they burn an effigy of Adam and Eve. I'm not shocked. I'm not surprised.
Speaker 3:I hear you and let's transition into Burning man, because you had a team there last year, 2023, august, I believe. Sadly, that was a little strange, I think, because you kind of got rained out.
Speaker 2:We did 2023,.
Speaker 3:But that's not the tradition, I think. Normally you have sunny and hot and dusty and sandy and all that. So you call Burning man the mothership of the transformational festivals, and again, these would be small pea pagans. They don't identify as witches. They're there to celebrate their humanity and they're looking for again deeper meaning and deeper purpose, and they're very, very lost. This is where some of the tech community somehow congregates at Burning man. You need to explain that and the fact that, in a sense, those of us using technology sadly tap into Burning man.
Speaker 2:Oh, you absolutely do. Burning man, specifically, is Silicon Valley's event. It's not just Silicon Valley's event. In many respects it's Google's event, and a great example is Google beta tested their Google Maps at Burning man in 1998. When Google incorporated as a company, they incorporated, during the burn week and they hung their shingle up on their webpage the very first Google Doodle, the Burning man symbol. And it was Google's team saying we're burners first and we're going off to the desert to celebrate and explore and discover, while we leave behind our attorneys to work through the paperwork discover while we leave behind our attorneys to work through the paperwork. And it was the calling card for the rest of Silicon Valley, who already had been going as well, to say look, this is where we find ourselves. So Eric Schmidt, who became the CEO of Google and made Google what it is and you all are using let's face it, you're all using Burning man, you're all burners digitally Eric Schmidt received his position as CEO. His resume floated to the top because he had Burning man on his resume.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad you brought that out. That was fascinating. They call this a spiritual movement. I doubt that they're bringing Bibles and they're certainly not contemplating the God of the universe, but it's still a spiritual movement. Explain that.
Speaker 2:It absolutely is, because it is this search for a feeling of connection to something higher than yourself, something bigger than yourself. Even though it's about the self, it is as eclectic as you can imagine. So you'll have your statues to Buddha and you'll have workshops on various forms of spirituality, and you're going to run into Wiccans, and you're going to run into atheists, and you're going to run into secularists and you're going to run into people of every stripe imaginable, because it's all there and it is this blending and it's artistic, and so much of this is expressed through art. What is the art saying? So, every year, there's themes. When I was there in 2018, the theme was iRobot, and so a lot of the workshops and a lot of the art were asking the big question can man and machine merge? How is transhumanism coming about? Because this is their play.
Speaker 3:So once again you were there with a team.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to say you infiltrate. I don't think they know that, but you and your team, you're sharing the gospel as you can. Right, we just go. And what kind of response do you get?
Speaker 2:2023,. We had some interesting responses. Okay, I'm there with a number of hats on. I'm there to research.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I'm going to research their worldview and their movement, because it is a unique movement, and I'm also there to research and understand global movements, because this is where the cryptocurrency community is. This is where you have members of the World Economic Forum coming and having talks and discussions. It's all there. It's almost a mix between the World Economic Forum and Mardi.
Speaker 3:Gras, and I got that quote from you and that was fascinating. This is a blend between the World Economic Forum and Mardi Gras, all rolled into one.
Speaker 2:Absolutely 100%. But at the same time, we're also looking for those conversations. So the name of our camp is the Camp of the Unknown God, which is taken out of Acts 17. And just the name of our camp invites conversation, because at Burning man, people are always asking what camp are you part of? Because almost every camp has names and there's theme camps. Well, we're with the Camp of the Unknown God. Well, what is that about? And that's an open door for conversations. For myself, one of the coolest conversations I had this last year was I was on top of a four story structure with a gentleman from Mexico City, and this is a global event.
Speaker 2:People are coming from every part of the world to come to Burning man, and I was talking to a gentleman from Mexico City who had moved up to Seattle working deep inside Microsoft. We ended up having this huge conversation about sin and repentance. He was Jewish, had a Jewish background. We went straight to Psalm 51, which is David's model of repentance. So for about 40 minutes we had this conversation about Psalm 51, and then bringing this back into the Gospels. If you're willing to approach people with respect and listen to them first, they're willing to listen to you.
Speaker 3:Why is it called Burning man?
Speaker 2:So at the end of the week they burn a massive human effigy, which is the central point of the entire event. So the city, and it is a city, it's a city of 80,000 people 80,000, its own airport, its own hospital.
Speaker 2:Right, and so all the major streets are like a compass and they're pointing to the center and the center is a huge human effigy and at the end of the week they burn that effigy and that's why it's called Burning man. The event all week long is focusing around this man. The other side to this is that past the man is another large wooden structure, and these are large structures and it's a temple, and this year's temple was enormous. And the temple starts off as a blank slate. All the walls are empty, they're clean, they're bare, but all week long people are posting up pictures of their loved ones who have been deceased, they're bringing urns of ashes of their loved ones, hanging up wedding dresses, writing on the walls notes of pain and sorrow and deep hurts. They're writing confessions.
Speaker 2:The place, by the end of the week, jen, is literally mounded up, and I mean mounded up, with people bringing all kinds of items to leave at the temple as they're seeking some way of finding healing and hope. And at the end of the week, after the man burns, then the temple burns and all that goes up in flames and it's a search for catharsis, the search for healing, and all that goes up in flames and it's a search for catharsis, the search for healing, the search for something to give them hope, and it is, in many respects, a week-long funeral all day long, every day, for almost 10 days.
Speaker 2:How tragic, how tragic and, at the same time, how important for us to recognize. These are people with souls and they're desiring healing, desiring hope, and we have that as Christians. And so why aren't we taking advantage of that opportunity to come alongside of them? You don't have to go to Burning man. You have Burning Minneapolis, that's right. It's Burning America. The world is burning, so come alongside, because all that represents Burning man is a concentration, an intensification of what's already existing in your yard.
Speaker 3:So we just had an eclipse a few days ago and I learned through your presentations that there are festivals actually surrounding the eclipse, and I mean festivals within the pagan community. Why is this? What's going on?
Speaker 2:The eclipse festival movement, and it's its own movement, is a sub-movement within transformational culture. What's going on? The Eclipse Festival movement and it's its own movement is a sub-movement within transformational culture and this is something a lot of people don't realize that the pagan community has sub-movements within it. Transformational culture has sub-movements, just as you see, the same splits within the Christian community, all these various denominations and subgroups. Same thing we're humans.
Speaker 2:This is a human story, and so there is a sub-movement of individuals in the transformational cultural movement who chase the eclipse wherever the eclipse may be in different years 2017, it happened in Oregon. There was a group of about 20,000 people coming to venerate the sun over a period of a number of days. There's workshops, there's music, sun over a period of a number of days, there's workshops, there's music, there's ritual and ceremony, and they're coming to connect with the sun and also to have the sense of community and this experience. Same thing in Texas Thousands of people gathering, they had workshops, lots and lots of workshops. Houston was there, nasa was there, futurists were there, and they're all talking about what direction the world is going. How can we shape the world? How can we be that change as we venerate the Sun and we use the Sun and the eclipse as this excuse to come together and become as one.
Speaker 3:You are listening to Understanding the Times Radio. I'm Jan Markell. I have in studio with fascinating discussion this hour. Carl Teichrib, learn more at forcingchangeorg. That's where you can also contact him Again. He has a book you can find it on Amazon Game of Gods, the Temple of man in the Age of Re-enchantment. Chapter seven of that book would certainly fully explain what we've been talking about this particular hour. Only. In the interest of time, carl Teichrib, I'm moving on. You cover so many things. I said when you came into the studio we need two hours. We're going to try to do it in one.
Speaker 3:But you have been to the global events all over the world and we could talk about them, but we can't possibly from World Economic Forum, world Interfaith Harmony Week, g8, world Religions, parliament of World Religions. I'm going to ask you some questions on that. Let me start there for just a moment, because you indicated in some of your teachings that the Parliament of World Religions and again, folks, is this a part of the one world religion movement spoken of in the Bible, heavily in the Book of Revelation? This movement, which started far more than 100 years ago actually 1893, and then jumped to 1993, gave rise to the social gospel movement and they apparently are hoping to build the kingdom of God on earth, which is kingdom now theology, which I don't think they know anything about. How did you get into going to these various global, but specifically the Parliament of World Religions and, in your perspective, is this laying the groundwork for the one world religion?
Speaker 2:In many respects it is Absolutely. It's the structure or a framework that this can be hung on. I've been going to these kinds of events since 1997. So I've been engaged as a full-time Christian researcher on worldview issues since 1997. And I bring a lot of this together in Game of Gods, including having a chapter specific to interfaithism, and the Parliament of the World Religions is the front runner of what that is. And in all of this there's a theme and there's a number of themes that you see, you see patterns, and the big, big theme is that this is an alternative salvation message. We're the ones who build heaven on earth.
Speaker 2:We're the ones who now will usher in paradise. We don't wait for God to do this. We do it. We do it with our good works, we do it by coming together as one. We do it through this sense of oneness where man, God and nature are all the same, Whereas of course the biblical position is no, and I appreciate Dr Peter Jones's work in one-ism versus two-ism, the biblical position is two-ism, God is other, distinct, and then all the rest of creation, and so all of what we're looking at, whether it's the politics, the global governance side I write about that extensively as well, going to United Nations meetings or the interfaith side, the Parliament of World Religions, which is the moral, religious voice of the global community.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:So the Parliament of World Religions isn't just religious leaders. Yes, there's 8,000 religious leaders at the 2023 Parliament, but it wasn't just religious leaders. It was UN leaders, members of the World Bank, members of the international community all coming there because it's all operating at the same level. Larry Greenfield, the executive director, thanked all of us and he repeated this, thanking all of us for our participation in saving the world. We're engaged in a salvation message.
Speaker 2:If you want to have a proper understanding of globalization, both in its political and in this, its interfaith, spiritual political concept, you need to recognize this is nothing more than an alternative salvation claim Period, the World Economic Forum. It's an alternative salvation claim. We're building heaven on earth. We're the ones who do it. That's all this is. When you see it that way, it changes a lot. Then you get it. So he said this to us Thanks to all of those who are committed to the salvation of the earth. Well, it reminds me of what Swami Vivekananda said in one of the speeches he gave at the 1893 Parliament the religion of the future will recognize divinity in every man and woman, and whose whole scope, whose whole force will be created in aiding humanity to realize its own true divine nature, offer such a religion and all the nations will follow you.
Speaker 3:Carl Teichrib, what I found intriguing, and that was a clip on this Parliament of World Religions that you have attended four or five times at least. They have a workshop on how to reach evangelicals. Talk to me about that.
Speaker 2:So the 2018 Parliament had a workshop specifically on how to reach exclusivists, and we are the exclusivists. They recognize that the evangelical community is a problem within the interfaith world because we're not fitting and we're a big part of the religious reality. And so how do we fit? How does this work? Well, we don't fit, and so that particular workshop in 2018 was how to reach an evangelical church. So I, being an interfaith advocate at social change agents, would go to your church, jan, and I would not approach your senior pastor, because he's already grounded. He's supposed to be the shepherd of your church, guarding the flock. Instead, I, as the change agent, would go to your youth pastor, your associate pastor. I would go to other people in leadership positions, specifically those who are a little bit younger, and then I would approach you by people in leadership positions, specifically those who are a little bit younger, and then I would approach you by saying we can engage in social justice work, community development, humanitarian outreach, and I would introduce you to one other faith only and I would leverage Bible verses for you about the need to love others and the need to care and I would feed that into you, and then I would introduce you to one other religion only. It might be local Muslim leadership or your local Hindu leadership and as you feel comfortable with them and now can bring them into your fold and can engage in community actions with them, then we can start to expand that and all of a sudden, your church is no longer the exclusivist church, it doesn't have an exclusivist message, because now you've rubbed shoulders with your neighbors and you should be rubbing shoulders with your neighbors, but not in the way that's being portrayed here. You're now rubbing shoulders with your neighbors, so it breaks down your exclusivist claims.
Speaker 2:We forget, don't we, john, that the God that we serve, lord Jesus Christ, is both exclusive and inclusive. He is inclusive in that he wants all to come to him, but he is exclusive in that it is his way. He is the way, the truth and the life, and he's exclusivist because he's the author of life and the one who defeated the grave. I can't defeat the grave Buddha, doesn't defeat the grave Krishna, doesn't defeat the grave. Jesus Christ defeats the grave Buddha, doesn't defeat the grave Krishna doesn't defeat the grave.
Speaker 3:Jesus Christ defeats the grave. That's who's been left out of everything we've talked about this hour, these activities. You won't find Jesus Christ followers there, other than folks like you who infiltrate.
Speaker 2:I have to tell this to people. I've had so many people say oh, you're on the front lines, hold on, hold on, no, no, no. If we're honest about this, we're all behind enemy lines. From a biblical worldview point of view, from a truth claim point of view, what do you want my audience to take away from this hour?
Speaker 2:Look at this as opportunity, please. There's so much fear in the Christian world. Stop being afraid of man, stop. These are people who need love and hope and we have that message of Jesus Christ, the one who literally defeats the grave. I would love to make a group of Christians invisible and say walk through their midst, just see them, so they don't see you. And I think you're going to walk away, going. Well, there's nothing to be afraid of. These are not scary people. At the same time, we all of a sudden, I think, would go huh, we'll mock them. No, don't do that, don't do either. Don't be afraid and don't mock. It's a serious issue and they take it seriously, and we need to take the gospel of Jesus Christ seriously and bring it to the world, and that includes your neighbors, who are now your pagans.
Speaker 3:Apparently, particularly at the Parliament of World Religions, there was the sentiment that this is sort of the start of a new world order one humanity on one earth. Again, this is New Age type conversation, but it's very 21st century, I think, and when we start to hear these buzzwords we need to be paying attention.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it is a mix. If people want to know more about this at a detailed level, my book Game of Gods really dives into this in a significant way. One of the important points of going to these events is you can now document it without having to rely on secondary sources. You're hearing it from their own lips.
Speaker 3:Carl, thank you for what you do and I know sometimes you have a team that goes in and infiltrates with you and I'm thanking them at the same time. What's your next assignment?
Speaker 2:I hope to get back to Burning man again. All of this is just we're a ragtag group and whether I'm going as an individual or as a small team, we're just a ragtag group. So if I can get back into Burning man, fantastic, we'll see where it goes.
Speaker 3:Thank you again, carol, for all you do. Again, find Game of Gods, the Temple of man in the Age of Re-enchantment on Amazon. I make a lot of the program saying this. Whenever we talk about our dark society, I want to remind you that Jesus says in Matthew 5, you are the light of the world, and in Ephesians 5, at one time you were in darkness, but now you are the light in the Lord. So both of them say believers, bring light to the darkness of our times. Therefore, it's one of the great callings of the followers of Jesus to let our light shine, as it says in Hebrews 10,. Also to encourage one another, and all the more as you see the day approaching the glorious day of his return, and I want to thank you for listening and we will talk to you again next week.
Speaker 1:Contact us through our website olivetreeviewsorg. That's olivetreeviewsorg. Call us central time at 763-559-4444. That's 763-559-4444. We get our mail when you write to Olive Tree Ministries in Jan Markell, box 1452, maple Grove, minnesota, 55311. That's Box 1452, maple Grove, minnesota, 55311. That's box 1452, maple Grove, minnesota, 55311. All gifts are tax deductible. You are here on assignment. We have a front row seat to watch so much of the Bible predicted for the end of the church age. We are privileged and challenged to watch all things fall into place.
